Is the Fantastic Four Movie About to Save Marvel?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd Jam Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Fantastic Four got a new trailer, and I continue to believe that this movie is going to surprise many, perhaps reinvigorate the excitement for the mcu. And this is something, again, that we've been talking about for quite some time, especially, you know, my thoughts of this being very, very. A very, very good version of Fantastic Four in the hands of the mcu. This is what I've been waiting for to see. And also with the X Men when they. When they finally do it, but the Fantastic Four. Brian, what did you think of the new trailer? [00:00:47] Speaker B: I generally liked it. I think. I think this is another one where they've done a good job of the promotional material. They. They've. They've done a nice job of teasing the world, like, I'm excited to live in their world. That's kind of the best compliment I can give it because it does look different than the Marvel worlds we're used to. We know that it is an period piece, but it's also potentially a launch point for the future of the mcu. So everything I've seen from this movie makes me want to go inhabit that place for two hours and see. See what's what. I continue to generally like the way the cast is being presented. It's not perfect. There's still qu. Like, I still have my questions about Pedro Pascal. He's not doing bad, to be clear. Like, Pedro Pascal is never bad. It's more the. His affect and the way he portrays Reed versus just, like, my own biases and perceptions of what I think Reed ought to be, which is, he's a difficult character. When we talk about Superman being a difficult character because of his sort of perfect standards, I think Reid is a very difficult character in some ways because of sort of almost the perfect intellect married with this sort of ego. But then hero, like, he's. He's a diff. He's not the easiest superhero to bring off the page either. And then we got a little bit more of the story, which I think is the same thing. It's like, I saw some things that seemed visually very, you know, potentially pretty exciting. I also saw a few things where I still. I'm still like, you got to convince me that this was a good idea type of stuff. But overall, I think the trailer is doing a nice job of expanding the scope and making you feel like, hey, this is not Thunderbolts, and this is not Brave New world. And I think that's important in this case. Sadly, I think they really have to differentiate within the house and so to say. Like, no, this is, you know, not Deadpool and Wolverine content wise, but this is more Deadpool and Wolverine event wise that you, you, you need to go see this one, even if you're not a big. As big of a fan of the other stuff. So. And then I have, I do. Before we leave before, remind me, I have one Did Pablo notice question for you before. Before we leave this topic. But anyway, what else did you. What else did you think? What else stood out to you in the trailer? [00:03:03] Speaker A: One of the things, man, that bothers me about this movie is that the Silver Surfer. So your planet has been marked for death or whatever the case may be. And it's like, that's a story I wish I would have seen with Nor and Rad because it's right. The coming of Galactus is specific. And she said your planet has been marked for death. And how do you then go back to this same situation again? You don't. I don't think. Right, you don't go, you don't, you don't go back to this story of Norrin Radio coming to Earth and him, you know, because again, you've done it in Rise of the Silver Surfer, now you're doing somewhat here and now you can't do it again. Yeah, so that's one of the things that I sort of bothers me about the whole thing. What did you think of the Silver Surfer? [00:03:52] Speaker B: I mean, visually, I thought it looked fine. You know, there's a scene of we get the obligatory Human Torch versus Silver Surfer chase. We obviously had that with Chris Evans and, and the CGI Lawrence Fishburne in the original one. Looks like we're getting it here. So visually I didn't have much of a problem. The flying effects so far on this have looked pretty good to me. The Torch effects and the Surfer effects physics look pretty good. Didn't love the voice, though. Pablo, not gonna lie. I know people were. I know this came up with regard to Ben Grimm and sort of Evan Moss Bach Rock just having Evan Moss Bach Rock's voice in the trailer. I did not have a personal problem with that one. I do have a problem with this one. Julia Garner just sounding like Julia Garner to me. This is an alien herald from way far away. Having it sound like, you know, any old actress as flawed as Rise of the Silver Surfer was. They doctored Fishburne's voice in that. There's some post production on his voice to make it. He did a Darth Vader that took me out. When she says the thing about the planet Mark for death. And it's just like a regular actor's voice. It took me out of it a little bit. And I texted that to you. I was like, I, I don't, I don't, I don't like how this sounds. I don't mind how it looks. I don't like how this sounds. The way they made Proxima Midnight sound in Infinity War as an example. That to me was well done, right. They took Carrie Coons voice, they doctored it. And it sounds very alien and so even. And it fits this alien looking Black order character. That's what I'm looking for. It can still sound a bit like Julia Garner if that's what you want, but it just can't be like Julia Garner standing next to you in a room like that. I don't know. That was sort of one that took me out of it. Other thing, just other things that I noticed. So we confirmed Sue's pregnancy, which has been the worst kept secret. It does seem like this movie might cover some ground because they show the scene where basically everyone knows that she's pregnant, but then we see a crib as well. Right. So this would imply that she gives birth sometime. That we're pre and post the delivery in this movie as well because we've heard rumors that Franklin is maybe the target. It feels like that made me think in the trailer, am I seeing how much time am I covering in this? Because those two things naturally have to be at least, you know, nine months and you know, probably more than that to make Franklin be a kid of any consequence. So that was one thing that sort of was like, huh, are we seeing some flashback scenes in this? I like and I'm interested to see the celebrity treatment of these characters. This is very comics accurate. I think the original Tim story, Fantastic Four like very briefly touched on it. But I like the idea that they're already not only well established heroes, but they're well established stars to the people. This is something that we haven't had a ton of in the in comics books verse. So we had a little bit of it in the sense of Zack examined Superman as God. That was something he did to his credit. We had a little bit of Tony Stark Iron man, like from Iron Man 1 where he becomes a celebrity. But I like the fact that this movie's leaning into that because I think it opens up some interesting possibilities. Johnny Storm's haircut I'm not sold on, I guess, the 1960s. That's why I kind of was forgiving it, because I was sort of like, there's something about that that looked a little bit weird, like bowl cut. Ish to me. What was Reid doing in space? What do you think he was doing? Because he says basically he's the one who broke some kind of multiversal barrier, basically. Right. To allow whatever Galactus is doing to be possible. So what do you think he was actually onto? Because that would seem to be central to secret wars and everything beyond. [00:07:48] Speaker A: I think whatever he's working on on the board, he actually takes up with him. Maybe he's definitely experimenting with something. And what I mean by the board, he's doing something on the board in the background, there's some sort of. Sort of not background in, like, actual contraption, but there is a diagram that shows some stuff that he's thinking about, perhaps regarding dimensions and things of that nature that he experiments while he's up there. And that what. And that is what signals Galactus. But again, it's weird because the reason that he's there may not be the reason why we all think he's there. So is it marked for death because he's whatever he needs to feed, or is he there for Franklin Richards? So it'll be interesting to see how that all transpires. Is it going to be a reveal at the end that. No, you're probably. I don't. I could be. I don't know how they're going to be both. Huh. [00:08:56] Speaker B: I mean, look, they're not going to do exact storyline adaptations. We know that. So this is just pure speculation. But if we assume Reid is telling us the truth in that, if he is actually responsible for why Galactus has marked Earth as a target, what if Franklin Richards becomes the price of saving the planet? That's the bargain. Came here to destroy the planet. Encounters this phenomenon in the kid who we know is a somebody in the comics, not just in anybody. And the deal that gets sort of brokered because, again, Galactus cannot be destroyed in this movie. No way, shape, or form. If that happens, I don't even care what comes next. I'm so out. So that means you have to resolve Galactus without destroying him. And so that's why I'm just speculating. What if the sacrifice is like in the trauma? And the trauma for the family going forward is they are made to give up Franklin in some way in exchange for him not eating the planet right then and there? I don't know. I'm just sort of throwing it out. There is like, could they combine those two things? [00:10:17] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Or sulfur kidnaps the kid to save the. You know, like, there's people working across purposes and like, the family doesn't want to let the kid go. They're fighting to save him. And Surfer steals the, kidnaps the kids, saves the planet in the process. But now there's like a. A rift and a chase and a reason to kind of continue with these. I don't know. I'm just trying to think of like, the pregnancy itself has to matter to this particular movie. So making Franklin the McGuffin seems almost necessary. But I'm trying to come up with like, how do we. How do we get spectacular action, a galactus invasion that doesn't result in either the destruction of the planet or him dying and being. Being unable to be used in the future. [00:10:58] Speaker A: It's a very weird situation, Brian, how they're going to be able to put this together. Hopefully the people behind this are not. Just because in the past we've heard that the people doing this are not really like comic book geeks like that. Right. So these guys are just probably left to their own devices and conjuring up a story that may not sit well with us, but we'll have to see what this story will be. I still visually think this is very, very interesting. And I think it'll be a good time in the theaters. But in terms of satisfying the comic book fans, I don't know if that will be accomplished, but it'll certainly keep people interested because again, the end of that movie is going to be very interesting because the Fantastic Four going to be in Doomsday. So that sequence at the end, that third act is going to be very important to the. To the excitement level that we have for the next films that they're supposed to release. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Question. For the visuals, we got our first glimpse of Mr. Fantastic in action. What did you think? [00:12:10] Speaker A: It's hard to reimagine the elasticity Superpower based on all the movies we've seen in the past. I think it'll be more of how he uses it for what scenario he uses it. Those are going to be the things that are going to get us, that are going to get us excited in terms of how his ability is different in usage from what he's done in the past. Because him stretching is no big deal. We've seen that before many times. So how they use it in this instance will be one of those things that gets us wild up in the theaters or not? [00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I had some similar reaction. Like I wasn't put off by it. I don't know that I was wowed by it. I mean, you're hoping that you see progression from 20 years ago to. To now. The Krasinski stretch in Multiverse of Madness wasn't received all that well, so you're kind of hoping for better than that. This looked interesting. I don't know how amazing. It's just kind of. I guess it'll be the choreography of, like, what they want the stretching to accomplish in the scene, but it looked okay. Did you want your what did Pablo. Did Pablo notice or did it put Pablo off? Question. Do you want your did Pablo notice or did Pablo get put off by this little thing? Question that I had for you? Galactus walking. [00:13:31] Speaker A: I was fine with it. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Really? Oh, I thought for sure I was. [00:13:37] Speaker A: I was fine with it. Listen, I was fine with it. They didn't show his face. I wish they would listen at this stage, showing that is not a problem. I didn't like the fact that they showed the back of his helmet. They could have showed the shadow, which is fine. And him walking. His feet. Who cares about his feet? You know what I'm saying? [00:13:56] Speaker B: This is the thing that sort of. When I rewatched it, I didn't notice it the first time when I rewatched it. This is what got me wondering if it bothered you. We know his scale as a character, what it's supposed to be. Are you okay with the fact that he can just walk on the ground like it's okay? [00:14:14] Speaker A: From the comics, he's. He's almost like as big as the celestials at times. And we know that he can scale himself up or down, whatever, what reason that he's doing it and walking through the. You know, I want to know why he's walking around. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:31] Speaker A: You know, why does he need to be walking around? Obviously he's looking for Franklin Richards because we see a shot of him peeking through buildings and stuff like that. [00:14:39] Speaker B: I assume that's what it is. I assume that's what it is. But my only question on that was, and maybe it is. Maybe it is a power that. That can explain this. But I think about, like, when Godzilla walks into Tokyo, every step that he takes cracks the sidewalk, causes damage. And I'm just saying that at the scale that the Galactus would be, normally, I don't believe that an Earth road would hold up to his feet, to where he could just walk down the sidewalk like you and I could. And so that was my only. Like, his feet are awfully just like on the ground as they're going. That was my only. Just like, it's working. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Lately. [00:15:14] Speaker B: Pablo is like, it's not believable enough that this giant dude is just cruising around, like through this. [00:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:23] Speaker B: But if he's like in the suit, like, if he has something that allows him to effectively be giant but somewhat stealth, then I'm. I'm. I'm fine with it. But I did want to ask the question because, like, when I rewatched it, I was like, yeah, his feet aren't really, like, making any impact as they go here. [00:15:40] Speaker A: I think for the most part, people are just going to be happy with seeing Galactus in his true state, you know, I think that's the goal there, and I think people will be happy with that. How this all transpires is going to be a different conversation. [00:15:55] Speaker B: But I like the fact that they've stuck with the song too. That's a smart. Like, that jingle is very. Like a commercial. It sticks in your head and like, it's a good way. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:16:06] Speaker B: So I like that. [00:16:07] Speaker A: I like that. I like it. I like it. It's very appropriate for them. But we'll see. We'll see what? This movie. I mean, I'm excited. I don't know how much more excited I am with this than I am Superman because it's just so much. It's tough. But I think this is. This is going to be very interesting. I would say so. Mackie, he had some. Listen, man, here we go again with the comparisons of prior stuff. I don't care. You know, most people don't care. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:51] Speaker A: I don't want this to be. I don't want to think about. Obviously in Doomsday, people lose. How is different. Maybe he's making that comparison. But you don't need to really say that. You know what I'm saying? You don't need to really make any comparisons here because what you do is set people's minds into the awesomeness that was Infinity War. And now we have to compare instead of it being his own separate thing. What did you think of his comments? [00:17:26] Speaker B: I think it's. I think it goes to the heart of the conflict Marvel finds itself in these days. I really do. And I think this is a Kevin on down issue. So Anthony Mackie's quote. And I don't think too bad. This is not a critique of Mackie. I think he's actually saying everything he would be expected to say. Certainly would be told or Wanted to say from the people at Disney, but he said, we're supposed to go out this week and we'll be out there doing it, meaning doomsday. Everybody's excited. I feel with the script and having the Russo brothers back, it's going to be great. I'm really excited for what this project's going to be. It's going to give the audience that Old Marvel feeling they always had, end quote. And that's the right there, the Old Marvel feeling they always had. This is the entire stated in question of the MCU right now. Should that be the goal at all? I say no. I say that as a flawed premise. If that's what the objective of all of this is, I do not think it will be successful and I do not think it will be as enjoyable as it could be. But I see it in everything they're doing. And this is, you know, Kevin bringing back the right, bringing back the Russos, bringing back one of the writers, bringing back Downey. Everything screams of. We are trying to play the hits and we are trying to recapture the nostalgia, the magic, the feeling of the ride to Endgame. And I see it at the Disney level where everything is a sequel, right? Everything is a known quantity. I don't totally blame executives because there's obviously safer money in those, in those paths than blazing new ones. But deep down, like, Endgame was a once in a lifetime phenomenon. I don't want to relive or recreate. I want that to be what it was. I want that to stay in my memory banks as something I was there for and cheered alongside all fellow audience members. Like trying to redo that, like replay that remix that I I before it begins. [00:19:56] Speaker A: Like, I get what he's saying, but the story and how they do certain things reveals, whatever the case may be, it has to be. It can't feel the same or it can't remind me of us. It can't remind me of a scene. It can't. You know what I'm saying? The excitement level of what they do with the characters in terms of how things transpire, in terms of what dilemmas they have to overcome, in terms of who comes in to help and save the day. It can't feel forced. Not that Endgame and Infinity will felt that way. But in this respect, you can't go back to that, what you did prior to, to this. You can't go back to the sort, the same sort of formula. Now, if this formula involves different ingredients, different ways of doing that, then perhaps because we still have to Cheer at the theaters. Brian. How they pull it off will determine what that. How that affects us. It has to be different. The result has to be the same, but it has to be different. [00:21:21] Speaker B: It's funny. Film, film history. For folks who have ever seen. There's a great documentary on the making of Jaws, Steven Spielberg's first blockbuster. And he talks about this effectively where he puts. I'm assuming most people have seen Jaws. There's a scene early in the movie where they're hunting around underwater and they encounter the dude's head rolling around in the dark. And it's a scary, like, you know, Dreyfus loses his mind in the. In the mask, right? But then later. So then later on in the movie, there's another scene where the shark comes out of the water very famously, right? And Brody's kind of putting the chum in. Spielberg makes a note of how audiences. When he put the head underwater scene in the final cut, audiences were more scared by that than they were by the shark coming out of the water later in the movie. And he said it was proof that you could only fool the audience once with a Scare moment. With a moment like that, once you had shown it to them, they would be wise to it looking for it, and it wouldn't have the same impact. That's exactly what we're talking about here. They achieved it with Endgame. That was the moment. That was the head under the water moment. Everyone reacted to that and is now on the lookout for you to try to do that again. So if you then tried to do the exact same thing again, you will not achieve the same impact because the audience is already there waiting for you. You, by definition, have to break new ground to get the audience to buy in as organically and as emotionally as they did before. And I don't think Marvel has actually understood that. And so when I read this quote from Mackie about the old Marvel feeling, that's not like, you're right. We're looking for the same box office magic. We're looking for the same community and camaraderie, emotional investment magic. But we're not looking for the same moment on screen. And that's. I. I think they are. And that's scary. [00:23:28] Speaker A: It's very damn. Because here's the thing. You have to do something, right? You have to. [00:23:38] Speaker B: But that's why I. [00:23:39] Speaker A: How they do this. [00:23:40] Speaker B: That's why I want Fantastic Four. Like, if you said, do you want Fantastic Four to make a billion dollars? Absolutely, yes. I don't think it will, but absolutely, yes. Why because it at least looks different. And if there's a moment, even if I criticize, like, hey, why is Galactus already in the story? Fine. But if there's a moment in there where we're like, holy crap, that's freaking awesome. Fantastic Four versus Galactus on screen, that is like, everyone is, like, freaking out moment. That will be a new version of that, a new look, a new moment that achieves that kind of fandom. You should all root for that. Because otherwise it is just this. It is just we're retreating into. How do we redo portals? How do we read? How do we redo. On your left, over and over again? And it's like, that's not going to work the next time. [00:24:30] Speaker A: I am attempting to remain somewhat hopeful for what the Russos will be able to accomplish. My concerns is RDJ just taking over and it being a mess. But I'm. I'm hopeful because of the Russo's track record with superhero genre. They had. They've had a good track record. Hopefully they can continue that. The likelihood of that happening is not that high. It'll be very disappointing thing if this movie doesn't work. Brian. [00:25:05] Speaker B: I think the most likely outcome is it works, but is kind of empty, if that makes sense. Like, I don't think it will do Justice League box office. I think it'll do like Ultron box office, which is like 1.3 billion, but you just don't walk out of it with that. Like, when you left Infinity War, you're looking at the calendar and being like, the hell, man. 12 months. That ain't right. That's torture. Like, you're feeling that. I don't think you're gonna leave this movie with that same degree of anticipation for Secret wars that that's how I would characterize it. I don't think it'd be bad. I don't think it'll be horrible. I just don't think it's satisfying and sort of invigorating to the degree you want it to be. [00:25:54] Speaker A: You think RDJ's performance will be the ultimate factor in its success? [00:25:59] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it is. At the end of the day, like, even if it is, whether he's Nicholson, whether he's true Victor von Doom, somehow, yes, he. It is. Because here's the thing with the way the movie's being set up and the way the parts being written, he will be the lightning rod from a critical and audience standpoint for what they see. Right? This is. This is Michael Jordan coming back wearing number 45. Effectively right. I mean, he left the universe. He hit the shot. Hit the, you know, he hit the shot to win the title. With his sacrifice at the end of end game, he had nothing left to prove. So if he comes back in sort of a modified role in a New Jersey number to try to add to his legacy, that runs the risk. Right. And I say 45 because we know Jordan put 23 back on and won three more titles, but in that one spring where he wore 45, he was definitely more mortal and flawed and was bounced from the playoff. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker B: And played pretty horrible in a couple of those games against Orlando. So I think a lot of people, if they're critiquing and reviewing this movie, will brush aside the cameos and the rehash and the performances by certainly the old characters. I think they have nothing to lose. Like if you're Chris Evans or they. To me, they're in a no lose position because they're in their parts. Probably not going to be big enough to make or break this film. It just says, hey, it's nice to see them back on screen as whatever. But Downey obviously is the movie. And so I think if he is, even if he's Nicholson, the Nicholson Joker, the movie can work. It may cause us to kind of grumble a little bit, but he can still captivate us by doing that. If it really just is a Tony Stark rehash, if that's really what it is and the costume has changed, that is not. That is not going to slide. He will get heat for that. He will get a. This is a paid. This was a paycheck gig. Robert Downey's all celebrity, forgot how to be. You know, Christopher Nolan extracted the last creative juice out of him and Oppenheimer, like that's what's going to be written about him. If this performance is basically just a retread. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And the fact that if he's playing Tony Stark and trying to trick everybody, we already know that. So when it finally happens, is not going to be any emotional investment from us because we already know was happening or he. Who he will turn out to be. We don't know his plans. So that's going to play a factor of what it is that he's trying to do. Whatever the case may be, but him trying to trick everybody, that's just not. I don't think that's going to work, man. [00:28:42] Speaker B: So here's a question for you. If so, I, I agree with you on this point and I hear you on this point, and I did start to wonder this from a marketing standpoint, would they have been better off announcing his return and letting the audience think he was returning as a variant Tony Stark and then revealing during the movie that he was actually Doom? [00:29:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:05] Speaker B: That way, if we didn't know he. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Was Doom until the movie, I'm saying. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Because then the tricking would be of us, too. We would think what we were seeing was just, oh, it's Tony Stark, but from another universe. So, yeah, his personality is a little different. He acts a little different. And then if the real third act bait and switch in Doomsday was like, the mask is actually the Stark face and it's actually Doom underneath, who's been just wondering if we're going to look back on that and wonder if they should have promoted this a little differently and tried to hide that. Now it's hard to hide that. That's in this day and age. It's very hard to hide something like that. But I'm wondering, because you're right, this is dramatic irony. We know everything that's happening before it happens. It's the characters who don't. And they're counting on that to create the emotion for us. But it can get repetitive. It's like, all right, he's tricked. He tricked those people. Now he's tricking these people. And then it's like, how's he gonna trick Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen? [00:29:54] Speaker A: They don't. [00:29:54] Speaker B: They don't know him from Adam. Like, what? [00:29:56] Speaker A: What? [00:29:57] Speaker B: You know, you know, I mean, like, so I. There's a. You know, there's an element of that. I hear you. I hear you on this. [00:30:01] Speaker A: If they would have just kept it quiet. But no, RJ has to reveal himself at every turn, you know, and it's like, we already know that you're doomed. Yeah, those are opportunities, man. Like, we have to get back to the Luke, I'm your father moment. You know what I'm saying? When nobody knows anything until that day, and then everybody sees. [00:30:26] Speaker B: I still has to be. You're right. When I show my daughter the movie and she saw that, you know, and I was trying to think in my mind of like, you imagine if he pulled that off today. You imagine the audience reaction in the moment in Empire Strikes Back when that came out of his mouth, like, that would have been the end. I think people would have just, like, say, reaction. [00:30:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, man. But they couldn't help themselves. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:57] Speaker A: They had to reveal who was playing Doom. They had to think. Sometimes, man, you just gotta take the risk of not involving fans in every moment. Like, if we knew Thanos was going to be in this movie at the end or whatever, would it be the same? We knew Samuel Jackson was. You know what I'm saying? These little things we didn't know about. We saw it in the theaters and I think that's what made these moments crazy. But to know that this is happening and is just. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how people are going to react and I don't know if they can put it off. But we'll see, obviously. [00:31:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:42] Speaker A: But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of Mackie's commentary. Commentary on Doomsday and it being going back to that feeling that we once had in Infinity War Endgame. The mcu, what the MCU was back in the day, we've lost that, obviously. And I don't think we can sort of tell people that this will be that because you don't. You just, you just do what you're doing and then hopefully it hits that. It gives you that impact. But to prep us for something like that, then, you know, it does something to us, to the fans, in terms of expect expectations and if you don't deliver, that's a huge problem. But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think and we'll see you next time on the Nurjin.