Zaslav Micromanaging DCU – Is Gunn Losing Control?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd Jim Report. I'm your host, Pavlon. Joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Scholz. Brian, a lot of news. A lot of news this week. A lot to decipher, to dissect, to think about. Warner Brothers. A lot of updates there. Zaslav making moves. I didn't get a chance to read that Bloomberg article, perhaps because I don't have access to Bloomberg, but you read the article. So I was. I was looking at certain things to point towards what you were referring to, but I'm interested in hearing a little bit further detail. We got a. An update or leaked photo of. Not a leak photo. It was put out. A photo of the lanterns of what first look. Right. And our first reactions to it. James Gunn announces sort of his DC slate or how. Or. And Peter Saffron on how they want to do things going forward year to year because of how many movies, TV shows, animation stuff they want to put out. And in a occasion where it is not good to react quite so quickly to the news and it's better to wait. The things that happened where it reminded me of Jim Lampley when George Foreman beat Michael Moore for the heavyweight championship, he was like, it happened, it happened, it happened. [00:01:22] Speaker B: It's one of the great calls of all time. [00:01:25] Speaker A: And then they're like, wait, wait, wait. This just in. Oh, and then we got to get into the possibilities of Bond. We touched on it in our previous show as to what may be coming, but we're gonna sort of shed light on our perspective on what should be done. I have my one idea for. For that franchise. And then we're gonna get into some tidbits here and there, things that happened over the past week, some announcements that. That also occur with the Punisher, which is interesting to me. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:02] Speaker A: And then the HAVOC trailer we saw. I saw it today, and I was like, wow, this looks pretty interesting. Tom Hardy is always good, man. So. And I. And that trailer looks to be very interesting in terms of what to watch on Netflix. Netflix be killing it, man. Anyway, let's start off with wb, Warner Brothers. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Who. [00:02:28] Speaker A: James Gunn. Let's start. Let's start with James Gunn and DC slate. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:32] Speaker A: So their plan is to release a certain amount of movies, certain amount of animated movies as well, and TV shows per year. What. What's the latest on that? [00:02:43] Speaker B: Yeah, so after a number of weeks where we kind of had smaller news, we got big news this week. There's a lot of layers to the DC announcements in that they delivered it at the start of the week. And Warner Brothers, the parent company, reported earnings at the end of the week. And I think by the end of the week, you got to kind of put the puzzle pieces together to try to read between the lines. And that's what we're going to try to do. Right. They seen a lot of people reporting on what James Gunn said. I think we're going to try to put this together because, Pablo, there's problems. That's what I'm going to say. I see problems here. Not end of the world yet problems, but proud. Okay, so this is an odd update in the sense of a lot of the full update of this. DC Chapter 1 Gods and Monsters was actually talking about changes and delays to what they originally planned. I was very surprised. I mean, if you think back to all the Marvel. When Kevin gets up on stage. [00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:44] Speaker B: You get every once in a while a name change to a movie, or you get a timeline adjustment to a movie, as we've seen. But you don't often get a frank discussion of like, this is not working. So we're changing it in the public eye. And that occurred actually during this presentation, if anyone kind of followed along. So let's take it from the top. The biggest update was to the Authority. Okay. Okay. So the Authority was originally announced as a movie, a live action movie. And it seemed very James Gunnish. Right. Like kind of roguish anti heroes, you know, teaming up. They would introduce them, like the Engineer and Superman, some of them. And then it's. They'd often be offered. This felt very much in his wheelhouse. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:36] Speaker B: But come to find out, this project is struggling mightily. And they admitted it. Peter Safran's quote, it's a very, very big movie. If you're going to do the Authority properly. Some of the story elements, perhaps, that are in Superman, some of the other films that we fast tracked step a little bit on the Authority. Gunn then said, the script has had a harder time coming along and the film hasn't been as much of a priority because it's been subsumed by everything else. There was then an additional report suggesting that this entire project might be converted to animated or streaming only. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:17] Speaker B: So that's a big tent pole that's now completely in flux. And they're actually publicly admitting that's in flux. That is highly unusual for something of this magnitude. [00:05:28] Speaker A: Yes. Very transparent of them. [00:05:30] Speaker B: So I give them that credit, but it makes me a little bit worried. And when we get to the end of this, I think you'll see why. When that report came about animated and streaming I immediately my radar was up for money problem. And I think that's where we're headed with some of this stuff. Second thing which I thought was odd. There was A Batman Part 2 update script is still not done. They just said what we've read so far is incredibly encouraging. But Matt has still yet to turn in his full script. Okay, we gotta. We gotta talk about that because something is going on here. I don't. I no longer believe this is purely Matt Reeves has writer's block. There's something else going on here. [00:06:16] Speaker A: Okay, what do you think is going on? [00:06:18] Speaker B: Well, come back to it. Batman, Brave and the Bold. See we get an update on both of these. This is what makes it conspicuous to me. Peter Saffron. The story is coming together nicely. James Gunn very unlikely Robert Pattinson will reprise the role. And then said would not preclude the possibility that the new Batman would show up somewhere else. Saying I wouldn't rule anything out. But the actor doesn't exist yet. Teen Titans was asked about that's being written by Anna Nogueira. The same person writing Supergirl. Woman of Tomorrow. Gunn again, very transparent. Something she was very impassioned about. Turned over an amazing first script to us. She's fiddling with it, but it's not a finished script. End quote. Literally just like incomplete. Just gives you that. Waller the Peacemaker spin off series with Viola Davis described as struggling. Can't find the right script. Been delayed nowhere. Not like basically not happening. Clayface as we know that one has a lot of momentum. James Watkins officially confirmed and signed. And here's the key. James Gunn says he hopes it works as a quote pure horror movie for somebody who doesn't care at all about DC Comics. End quote. So shouts to Pablo gets his wish. We're going to get our test drive or formal confirmation of what we thought. Sergeant Rock confirms Daniel Craig was never attached to the film. We never met with Daniel. He was just an idea. We never even really announced Sergeant Rock, end quote. But they have a shooting date, a director and a script. So I don't know what's going on with that. Deathstroke Bane confirmed a script is in the works by one of the. By one of the writers who did Moon Knight and said it's something like a Deathstroke Bane story. There's a related story saying that the Deathstroke casting is close. So get that Booster Gold. Remember there was that rumor about Camille Nanjani at one point. Nowhere series is nowhere. Limbo says waiting on a particular showrunner creator who had expressed interest in the property, but has now moved on to something else. Nothing Dead in the Water Penguin season two. Also very transparent and kind of. We think we know what's going on here. But quote Saffron, we don't know a lot of moving pieces, but the most important is Colin himself. And Colin Farrell said he's in no rush and has no deep desire to do it. End quote. Meanwhile, he's polishing his latest award win at the SAG Awards. We'll get to that. Swamp Thing directed by James Mango. Nothing to see here. A complete unknown. The Bob Dylan biopic has prevented any progress. And obviously we know he is fast tracking Star wars, so this one feels very back burner as well. Paradise Lost Really? No update. Then said at the very end a six year plan confirmed. A six year plan to tell a wider story that would culminate in a Justice. Something like a Justice League film or akin to an Avengers film. Gun also teased the project he's most excited about hasn't even been announced and he hasn't even seen it in the rumor mill yet, for what it's worth. And then he said he was just screwing with people with the Zack Snyder photo. Zach's a friend. We were hanging out. He said, let's take a picture together. We knew full well what we were doing and we thought it was funny. Okay, so that's the lawn. That's the laundry list. [00:09:42] Speaker A: So let's go one by one. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Let's go back. So the Authority. The Authority going from a frontline feature film project to not sure when it's happening and not even sure what format will get it. [00:09:56] Speaker A: This, what I think about is just all the talk James Gunn said about, you know, if we don't have a script ready, we're not gonna announce nothing. And, you know, and then he went on to mention all these projects that he has in store and some of them haven't had no real momentum. And these are just people, I think, really. I mean, listen, if they didn't spend money on the super bowl, they barely spend money on the Puppy Bowl. They don't want to spend money on the Authority. [00:10:28] Speaker B: No, that's. [00:10:28] Speaker A: That. That, that will require some money right there, some special effects, whatever the case may be. These movies can't be made with a lot of money with the expectation of turning a profit for some of these characters that nobody knows the Authority. Nobody. Not nobody. But you know. [00:10:49] Speaker B: No, you're right. Nobody knows. Say nobody knows, like the average. What? What Non comic book fan knows a single member of the Authority. I barely knew members of the Authority when they. [00:10:59] Speaker A: When he met. Yeah, exactly. When he announced that, I was like, who? But okay. But now we're in a place where, I guess, conversations are being had and really they're thinking it through as to what the strategy is. Because at the end of the day, the number one priority is what Superman. And that for me, my friends, is floundering as well. [00:11:23] Speaker B: They'll get to that. There's issues there, too. But you hit on it, it's money. There was a report maybe 48 hours after this event. And think about that, folks. Think about everything I rattled off. That's a bizarre event. That's a lot of unconfirmed not happenings. We don't knows. Not a lot. Right. So anytime you hear that in a public forum, you immediately have to get suspicious as to be like, wait a minute. How can you be less certain today than you were two years ago when you announced this? And the obvious elephant in the room is what's going on at the parent. There's got to be something else. And sure enough, there came a rumor. 48 hours later, Warner Brothers has cold feet about allocating the budget necessary to make the Authority an event type picture. Bingo. That's it. And this is where the David Zaslav of it all comes in. So let me give you this story. And now I think you'll start to see what's going on. All right, so I'm Bloomberg. [00:12:27] Speaker A: When did this Bloomberg article come out? [00:12:29] Speaker B: Came out Thursday. They reported earnings Thursday morning. This article was out the same day. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:34] Speaker B: So lest you think these things happen in a vacuum, report on the feature was that David Zaslav did not take the Joker 2 failure very well. [00:12:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:48] Speaker B: He summoned Michael DeLuca and Pamela Abbey, Mike and Pam. They're the co heads of Warner Brother Pictures now. And he basically tore them a new one. According to this article about the failure of this movie. By the numbers. All you need to know, if you don't didn't follow this story. Joker 2 cost four times what Joker 1 did and made 1/5 the money. You talk about a loss like that is a loss on a sequel. As we said, that should have been a guaranteed money maker. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Now, this is what I mean by this doesn't happen. A vacuum. They took a loss on Black Adam. They took a loss on Flash. They maybe scratched break even on Aquaman. The Lost Kingdom. We don't know. It was close. But like, while the reshoots we're not really sure where the cost base was, but it be tight if they made any money on that. And then the thing they thought was a lock, and make no mistake, they thought Joker 2 was a lock from a profit standpoint, winds up losing a boatload. Last year now in the feature in Bloomberg, Zaslav railed against the performance of the film, Bloomberg's words, and decried the mounting costs of the studio's upcoming releases. So here we go. So we know that he's under pressure, stock's been under pressure, all that sort of stuff. And then this article talked about some of the other stuff in the pipeline that we don't talk about. And I was just like, holy. Now, Mike and Pam have the reputation of in Hollywood. They like to get the big names in the door and count on the big names to sell. So this, if you've seen a trailer for this Mickey 17 with Robert Pattinson, that's coming out. Bong Joon Ho, right? So that's big. Like, big name off his. That movie cost more than $100 million to budget. Like, for a director who's basically an art house director. Like, he may make films that win awards, but they don't make money. Yeah. Projected opening weekend is less than $20 million. So they're going to take a loss on that. Paul Thomas Anderson, who's an amazing director, he has never had a movie make more than $76 million in his career, despite almost every movie being nominated for an Oscar. You know how much money they gave him for the movie he's got coming out this year? He. His budget is $130 million. [00:15:17] Speaker A: And this is Mickey 17, correct? [00:15:18] Speaker B: No, Mickey 17 is over a hundred. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:15:21] Speaker B: And it's about to open. And the box, opening weekend, box office is less than 20. So they're screwed. That's not working. Okay, I'm saying Paul Thomas Anderson, like I said, he directed Inherent. He directed what, like Inherent Vice, There Will Be Blood. He has never had a movie make more than $76 million worldwide, and they gave him a budget of 130 for. [00:15:40] Speaker A: A movie to make. What? [00:15:42] Speaker B: Supposedly it's some kind of movie with Leo, but if you never made more than 76, and now you need to make a movie that makes at least 300 to 350 to break even. What kind of leadership, what kind of management is that? On top of that, this Ryan Coogler's vampire movie, Sinners. The budget's not terrible. Like, it's okay, yeah, it's $90 million. But the issue apparently is that, like, so much of it's guaranteed to him because they just wanted to get his name in the door. And it is kind of a niche. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Movie for Michael B. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Or no, for Ryan Coogler to work with them. Okay, so like, again, it's like $90 million for a niche period piece vampire movie. Like that could work, but, you know, you need 250 on that. Like, I'm just saying, you're not leaving yourself a lot of margin for error. And then that leads into Superman. Part of this feature article revealed that because Zaslav was mad about how things have been going, he fired the head of marketing who was in charge of marketing Superman. And he didn't tell James Gunn and Peter Safran until the night before he did it. [00:17:01] Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Because this is where I did a little bit of research of my own and trying to find out about this. When was this? Fine. When did that firing place? [00:17:09] Speaker B: It took place in January. [00:17:12] Speaker A: Okay. Why in January? [00:17:18] Speaker B: Why? [00:17:18] Speaker A: I mean, because I was under the impression that this came out, that this had just recently happened because of what we've gotten so far with Superman, which hasn't been great. It hasn't been what we see. [00:17:28] Speaker B: January is pretty recent, as supposedly they said it was in. I mean, that's less than a month. A month ago. It might explain what happened with the Puppy Bowl. [00:17:35] Speaker A: When was The Puppy Bowl? [00:17:37] Speaker B: February 9th. February. Yeah, February 9th. [00:17:40] Speaker A: What I was reading was that they were looking for a scapegoat because of the Joker debacle. [00:17:46] Speaker B: Sure. [00:17:47] Speaker A: And they chose him to be the. The. The Lamb. The lamb, I guess. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Well, so the political scuttles, they fired two people that he was the more topical to us one. But the two people they fired were apparently were like very trusted lieutenants of Mike and Pam. So that was like the, you know, when the they. They tell the head coach, we'll bring you back, but you got to replace your offensive and defensive coordinator. That's basically what he did. Which means the next. The next change is going to be the two of them are going to get fired. [00:18:19] Speaker A: And I had read that the. The chief marketing officer had been a part of big successful film, the Batman. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yep. [00:18:27] Speaker A: And that was great. A marketing. Right. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah. We didn't have a problem with the Superman teaser. That was fine. [00:18:36] Speaker A: We didn't have a problem with the Superman teaser. Everything after that, though, has been a problem for me. [00:18:40] Speaker B: But the point is, right, you got. The CEO is now in the room. And this is. This is where it gets dicey. Right. Because this is where up till now James Gunn, they let him kind of do his thing and call the shots and blah, blah, blah. But now Zaslav's getting nervous, right. He thought he had winners in Black Adam and Flash and Joker, and he got nothing. [00:19:02] Speaker A: Whoever told him that lied to him totally. [00:19:05] Speaker B: But I'm saying it's telling you he's now very hands on. And that's where you get nervous, because he's not. He may be a Superman fan, but he's not a filmmaker. [00:19:13] Speaker A: And he can say what he wants because he's in the room and he's paying for all of this stuff. Right. So to speak. He's the one. He's the head man in charge. And he. And normally, perhaps he wasn't in the room when Black Adam was being made. He wasn't in the room with Flashpoint. Now he's in the room talking about this stuff. And you don't want him in the room because you don't know what the hell he's talking about. Yeah. [00:19:32] Speaker B: And the other thing is he's watching. He's watching the budgets. He a lot closer now. Right. So when you take this feature and you put it with this weird event that James Gunn delivered, the code for me is he's tightening the purse strings behind the scenes. And a lot of the reason you're getting increased uncertainty is him saying, no. Like, I'm not giving you 200 million for the authority. I'm not giving you guaranteed money for that show or this project. He's like, we're taking this bit by bit or what? We will talk about the one area where they actually had something to offer. We'll talk about how good it was, was animated, which, generally speaking, is a lot cheaper than a big budget, live action, you know, theatrical release. I mean, we talked about the pressure that was on Superman before. I think the pressure on this thing just went up like, tenfold to not just be good, but really make, like, make real money. And if he's going to meddle in it, that is not a good sign. [00:20:29] Speaker A: So Zaslav is now really paying attention to the budgets, not necessarily paying attention to the titles that James Gunn has said that he wants to. To do anymore. [00:20:43] Speaker B: He's losing faith in his people. How else can you describe it? Right? He's. These are all projects that clearly, when they were conceived of and announced, he greenlit. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker B: But now he's. Because these movies are starting to pile up where they don't make money. And, oh, by the way, their biggest guaranteed moneymaker, Christopher Nolan, no longer works for them. Warner Brothers got Barbie that weekend. Right. Their highest grossing movie of all time. They should have gotten both of them. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:21:14] Speaker B: And they lost out on another billion dollars because they pissed off Nolan with the, the release strategy during COVID Yeah. So he's mad because he's like, we're not getting enough guaranteed return. And the feature article, Bloomer closes by saying basically the studio is now laser focused on cutting budgets and increasing the odds that they generate a positive return on their projects, which that's not a good sign. [00:21:40] Speaker A: And it's because of the failures of what was, quote unquote, I guess, great movies. Right. And didn't turn out to be the case. [00:21:52] Speaker B: It's also the legacy of the Snyderverse. Call it for what it is, it's still the legacy of the failure. And the way that fell apart is still costing them today. Right. Like the losses they took on Flash, Aquaman 2, like those are remnants of a former era. And we could say, like, oh, we shouldn't penalize them too much because they, you know, wasn't Gun and Saffron that made them. But my point is those have a monetary impact on the studio. And we're seeing the fallout of that. [00:22:19] Speaker A: The remnants of that. And yet the continued releases of films that don't resonate or, and are not received well by fans and then, you know, turning into loss of money. Not just a little bit of money, millions of money. And Zaslav, he has a lot of pressure right now, man, because he has people gunning for board seats and all these things happening around him. If he doesn't come through, he may not have the power that he once had, that he has now, that could disappear if he's not able to provide the, the revenue for his investors or stockholders. [00:23:05] Speaker B: I mean, this has always been a race against time because ever since they did the discovery deal, they've been carrying a ton of debt. You know, so that's where you're like, hey, every time, every time you lose 100, 200, $300 million on a project like that doesn't just go into space like that is hash that you don't have, that goes to the red. Yeah. And like, you know, the other thing we didn't talk about because it's not really our purview, is Warner Brother video games has been a graveyard. I don't know, people should just Google, Google Suicide Squad game. It is one of the most disastrous money losing video game releases of all time. They lost more money on that than they'll ever lose on a bad DC Studios movie it got. So they had that game that lost them a ton of money. They canceled a Wonder Woman game they had planned. And then you know what they did? They announced recently they shut down the whole gaming studio because it's losing too much money. So if you don't think things are desperate, like it's on the movie business. That's what, that's it. They have no amusement park. You know, like this is it. Like they. So to your point, you know, Zazadov can fire Mike and Pam, he could even fire a gun and Saffron. But the real. Because the clock is on him. The clock is on him and the clock is on the company. And if this thing doesn't like Superman doesn't work, I think they've got Minecraft. That's a big one. That. That doesn't work. They're not the creators of F1, but they are the studio distributor for it. That's a 300 million dollar movie. I'm not sure how the economics work if you didn't make the movie. But like these are movies that if they don't work this time next year, we're probably talking about the whole IP sale and company sale and breakup. [00:24:44] Speaker A: That's the only thing I'm thinking about right now. I'm honestly just thinking about the ramifications of the Superman not working out. And then all this stuff that James Gunn said wanted, that he wanted to do and that is some of them are happening. Supergirl is happening, Green Lanterns is happening. But if Superman doesn't hit, here's a scenario Superman doesn't do quite well, which would be unfortunate. Then you got Supergirl coming in where we have this cloud over these type of films led by certain, you know, people that don't often do well. Look at Furiosa. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:33] Speaker A: And then you got Green Lantern. That what we hope is fantastic possibility of what tv. Superhero TV and that whole, I guess intergalactic sort of genre type of situation happening on tv. How good that can be. The possibilities are people are watching that. How many chances can Zazlov afford to take if Superman doesn't work? Is it gonna be because again, if Supergirl doesn't work, then you're left with Green Lantern, which is T. And then there's the hope of then going towards the movies for this. So you want me to take another chance and you. It's a tough situation. Superman gotta hit or else's. I'm telling you right now is finally, finally we arrive at the, at the place where Zazov is really Considering taking these calls on whoever. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Is going to start taking these calls and listening to what they have to. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Offer because they need the cash, you know, tv. Your point about land? We'll get to Lanterns as its own thing. The one area where Warner Brothers does, you know, consistent work is HBO's prestige TV. And that remains the case. Right? So, like, if we were to talk about Warner Brothers being broken up and sold, people gonna line up for hbo, right? Gonna line up. Right. We love the Penguin. Like, we're excited for Lanterns. But think about it, man. You've had Succession. You've had, like, you got White Lotus, all the stuff that. Stuff that we don't watch. This last of us. There's no Game of Thrones, then Harry Potter's coming. There's no problems at hb. That is the actual gold standard of that company is prestige tv at hbo. We got no issues there. The issues there only come up because, like you said, we're trying to link it to other things that are not doing or not performing at the same level that HBO is. So I agree with you. The problem with what you're saying, though, is that, like, even if, like, the thing I don't like about this is that, like, for me, before was kind of like, all right, Superman comes in. Let's say it's like, 85% fresh or better on Rotten Tomatoes. You know, the top critics are like, wow, this is actually a breath of fresh air in the genre. And it makes, like, $700 million, which would be, like, modestly profitable, but not, you know, not like real. Not like Avengers Bank. Right. [00:28:07] Speaker A: No, but it. [00:28:08] Speaker B: But when I read all of this, I'm like, can they afford that? Like, I consider that a great starting point, but this is making it sound like your billion dollars almost has to happen, not just for Superman's sake, but for, like, the sake of the rest of the studio because they're spending so much money on these other outhouse projects. [00:28:28] Speaker A: If Superman makes $700 million and it makes. If it makes decent bank, not perhaps. Not the billion that. That perhaps as Love one, but it makes decent amount of money. It provides them a chance to move forward now, a control, a complete failure, I don't know if you can recover or have any confidence in moving forward with whatever plans you got next, it. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Really makes you wonder what will happen to Matt Reeves, Batman. Because, like, with that having been delayed so long now and these articles kind of bringing to light what seems to be a company that really is, like, up against it, I wonder what the odds are that that movie, like, either doesn't get made or gets made at another studio, like years from now because it's supposed to come out in 2027. With what's being described here, 2027 might as well be like 50 years from now. Like if Superman fails, right? Like, if they lose money on these, you know, the Paul Thomas Anderson thing, let's say it's good but doesn't make any money. Like, let's say F1 gets lost in the summer shuffle. Let's say Minecraft. People are like, we don't care. That's not Super Mario, bro. Like, how's Matt reeves gonna get 200, 250 million even if he deserves it? Like, they may not have the ability to give him that. Like, that's what I'm just like, I don't. I think everything is in flux other than what's in the can, like be or being shot, like right now, which to your point, is basically just Supergirls and Supergirl and Lanterns. That's it. [00:29:54] Speaker A: And I mean, yeah, yeah. To me, the Batman is always a safe bet if done right. If you have the right people behind that, I think that's always a good bet. Matt Reeves, Batman, I think is a safe bet because listen, they're going to get the Penguin season to coming up. They're going to do that. [00:30:12] Speaker B: They have not worried. Yeah, I'm not worried about the quality. I'm just asking who's going to be writing the check. Because it might not be the people who are in charge now by the time he actually does shoot this movie. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Gotcha. So whoever it is is going to put that money up because Batman is Batman. Yeah, Batman and Batman, yo. And these people are don't want to admit it. They know it. They know it, but they don't want to admit it. [00:30:39] Speaker B: I mean, they want to find out. Just put that one characters IP up for auction and see what happens. [00:30:44] Speaker A: 25, 35, 75, 45, 35, 35. Sold to the man with braids in his hair. [00:30:49] Speaker B: Forget about you want to see a bidding war like you've never seen before? You see every studio be. Be like borrowing and leveraging whatever they can to bid for. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Batman remembers me. A white man can jump. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Hey, how you doing? [00:31:03] Speaker A: Oh, nothing, man, you look so good today. [00:31:05] Speaker B: What's up, baby? [00:31:06] Speaker A: You're up. I need a diamond to put up this money. They're gonna. They're gonna do whatever they can to. To. To. To get Batman because Batman is a money maker. Gu can do so much, so much stuff that hasn't been explored or done. Can be done elsewhere and it'll be interesting. At least right now, quite honestly, the only interest is Superman is. The only interest in Superman is can they do it? Yeah, can they do it? Not that it. Oh, snap. A Superman. No, no. I want to see can they do it? If Batman. Oh, this is good. The first thing is, oh, snap. Batman. Superman is like, oh, see? Let's see what they're gonna do. There's a difference in the level of excitement when you hear those names. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Well, before we leave Superman, there's fresh, hot off the press. There's a rumor that an updated version was screened and was received very positively. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [00:32:06] Speaker B: So whatever. Like, yeah, that's what it's worth again, for what it's worth. Right. We put almost no stock in these, but, like, supposedly the second cut has drawn a much better response than the first cut. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Just recently, James. James Gunn leaked a behind the scene photo of, I guess, Superman's boots and stuff in Norway. [00:32:30] Speaker B: They're shooting in Norway. [00:32:33] Speaker A: And I'm reading the comments and nobody cares. Nobody cares about that. The excitement. That part of the excitement has grown. Gone. [00:32:41] Speaker B: Yep. [00:32:42] Speaker A: You shown us what he looks like. He's shown us a teaser. We've seen pieces of the movie. These other things that you're showing us doesn't matter. That Guy Gardner stuff that you pulled off did not matter. [00:32:56] Speaker B: No. And now you got a new head. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Yes. That crypto stuff did not matter. James Gunn needs to chill out with what he's putting out and put out the stuff that people want to see. Now, I'm not saying put out a new trailer showing us everything that be strategic or don't show anything at all. Yo. Or show us something that they're talking or something. Whatever. [00:33:20] Speaker B: What? [00:33:20] Speaker A: Some updates because the movies coming up soon. But don't tease us with wits behind the scene. We don't care. [00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, the weird thing about that is everyone's going to have their opinion. But, like, I'm surprised that someone who's as social media savvy as James Gunn didn't have with the marketing team a more viral marketing plan for this movie. And I, when we. It started, like, there were some hints of that. Like I said, that one video where it's like corn sweat. I was like, they're on to something, right? If they did, like, almost an office style mockumentary, like, little thing to introduce you to Lois, introduce you to Jimmy, and introduce you to Perry and introduce you to Clark. That could be one of those things. Yeah, that's the kind of thing it's like 30 seconds in and out, but like, it keeps it in the consciousness. It keeps it in the flow. And people are talking and they're laughing, you know, like, that felt would have felt creative and different in the span, but like individual photos now of like, feet and stuff, it's just that feels very formulaic and like, doesn't really matter when we've already seen the character. [00:34:28] Speaker A: Exactly. Like, yo, James, what are you doing? Yo, don't, don't, don't. Don't try to show me stuff. I don't, I don't care to see, yo. This is the problem of having someone that has that much control to do whatever he wants. [00:34:45] Speaker B: But I'm like, how could they? I mean, I still remember the whole Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises. Remember that stuff where they go with these, like, webs, these mystery websites you would follow to eventually unlock like a clue or a trailer or an image, like, of the Joker. And like, how was it they were able to do that like 15 years ago? And we can't do better than that today. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Now it's behind the scenes shots. [00:35:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So anyway, I'm with you. Now. The other area of this presentation where there was more actual development, I actually have complaints, which was the animated side. So they confirmed Dynamic Duo, which you'd heard about, that was Dick Grayson and Jason Todd, described as the perfect on ramp for family audiences into the world of Gotham, end quote. They confirmed active development on converting Blue Beetle to animated. See, remember that? For the Authority, right? Blue Beetle was a movie and now they're bringing the cast back, but only their voices, and they're making it a cartoon. They then offered three animated series aimed at young audiences. One, my adventures with Green Lantern, this time using a female green lantern number. Two, D.C. superpowers set at the Alliance School for Heroes, focusing on Aqua Girl, Flash, Plastic Man, Lightning, another Green Lantern. I don't know what's with all the Green Lanterns. And the principal of the school is Martian Manhunter. And then Starfire, which is an origin story for the Teen Titans character. And then that Crypto the Dog would get a short series, kind of like the Groot series. I have complaints. You know why? Because what's One thing that D.C. has always done well historically? What the hell are we doing here, Harry? Freaking animated adaptations of classic comic book stories. What is this? [00:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah, this is. This is. This is. This is. Whatever this is. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. I can only think of them Thinking that they've had quite a bit of success with Harley Quinn and them wanting to do these strange characters and try to have them be popular. I don't know what the thinking behind this, because if I'm in that room and room and they're. They're naming these things, I'm looking at them like, yo, what is all of this? [00:37:06] Speaker B: This is not it. [00:37:08] Speaker A: This is not it. Why are we stepping away from what we've done so great in the past and why can't we continue to do that? Yeah, what's been so bad about what we've done that we have to change everyone are we trying to do here? [00:37:21] Speaker B: Who. Who doesn't like the Bruce Tim Justice League? Who doesn't like their adaptations of like All Star Superman or some. Or like Justice League Doom? Like, these are Return of the Dark Knight Returns. Like, they're good at this. Like, these people are good at doing classic kind of. It's accessible enough. Some of it's accessible enough for like teenagers, but it definitely skews toward, you know, mature audiences. They just did that Watchmen re release that people that release that people. Like, why again, you have something that's not broke. Why are you fixing it and making it silly? But like, Batman series was accessible for kids. It was dark, but it was accessible for kids. That's the balance. Why, like, I mean, you and I are not going to talk about any of these shows, watch them or cover them. And I think they're even like below where my kid is right now. I don't think she's going to be interested in any of them. Yeah, so they were like, these are all far along because they're probably cheap. But I'm like, you guys are really good at animation, and animation is now you know that as we said, that bar has really been raised, right? X Men 97. Like Cape Crusader at Amazon. Blue Eyes Samurai. Like, you gotta step up your game. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Exactly. Yo, what happened to competition, yo, what happened to wanting to do something as dope or better not just giving us these. Oh, we gotta not. Not looking for this target audience. The target audience is the people who got money and want to spend money on stuff that they like and what we've been willing to pay for in the past? But why are you giving me this new stuff that I don't necessarily care about? Martian Manhunter as a principal. What? [00:39:02] Speaker B: Like who this? Yeah, but that's what I mean. Like, individually, you've got some characters in there I do care about, but not in this capacity. Like, if you want to make some sort of, you know, tragic, tragic animated story about the fall of Mars and the origin of Jon Jones. Great. I'll show up for that. If you want to actually adapt something from Flash's comic book lore and introduce, like, a new, cool, funny Flash voice as Barry or Wally, great. But, like, why does he need to be, like, one of the freshmen at this school? Like, it's just, I'm not in. I'm out, man. Like, I'm out on all this. I've been excited about some of the things that they've done. And we'll talk about lanterns at the tail end here to end on a good note, but a relatively good note. But, like, man, like, this event was just like a weird misfire and sort of letdown of loss of momentum. And as you said, it really just defaults back to, like, Superman. It's all on Superman. And even that's looking like, hey, we got a new head of marketing. Not really sure. Like, this is feeling a little tenuous and audiences tolerance is low. Brave new world, right? Craters at the box office. These are links. Like, we understand it's Marvel versus dc, but, you know, the average person just sees superhero. [00:40:23] Speaker A: It's not enough to say, oh, I'm doing a superhero movie. [00:40:26] Speaker B: That's a negative. I want to talk. We'll talk about that. With regard to land, that is a negative right now, not a positive. [00:40:32] Speaker A: I don't know if it's too late. It may be too late, because then it comes off as you're trying to salvage whatever reputation that you have left with us. But you had the Daily Planet there as your vehicle to sort of share information to get people interested in that world, and yet you're just leaving it to do. Show me. If I hear that James Gunn's dog was the inspiration of crypto, I'm gonna go crazy, yo, because I am tired of hearing it. You have the ability to make this interesting, but yet they're just doing stuff. It seems like they're just doing stuff. Oh, this would be cool. Let's do it. [00:41:16] Speaker B: I was gonna say they could have done something equally cool and viral on Lex Luthor side. Like, I don't know if he's running for president yet in this movie, but they could have done, like, imagine if he. He was dropping, like, little. Little campaign ads or, like, little, like, advertisements for his tech. And it's just showing up in your tick tock and showed up in your Instagram like. But you're getting a feel for Nicholas Holt. You're getting a feel for his best test mod, you're just getting a feel for like his crew. [00:41:42] Speaker A: That's creatives are not being. Are not being creative. [00:41:47] Speaker B: No. [00:41:49] Speaker A: Right. It's like they don't. It seems like the people who are in charge of getting people interested in this have no idea what they have in their hands and have no idea on how to best get people engaged with this character and what's about to come. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:11] Speaker A: And it's a shame. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Or how to target the audience they most need. And to be honest, like the audience they most need is, you know, it's less so our generation, it's more so the generate the younger generation. Right. Like they're the ones who live on socials. Like that's why I'm just, I'm just surprised because I would have thought for everything they put into this and given how media savvy in social media savvy gun is, I'm just surprised that they weren't like more thoughtful and more comprehensive in how they approach this. [00:42:43] Speaker A: But Lanterns. [00:42:45] Speaker B: Okay, let's end on a relatively positive note. Vanity Fair did a full length feature and gave us the first photo. You wanna, you wanna tackle the photo first? Because you and I kind of disagreed a little bit on this one, but we both had complaints, but maybe for different reasons. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Well, you, you said it. Right. And I sort of thought about it from your perspective. When I first saw it, I. I just not left nothing to the imagination of what Green Lantern. Green Lanterns could be. I just saw two guys. It reminded me of an updated version of 48 Hours. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Lethal Weapon. Yeah, exactly. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So that was that. But you had made mention that the superhero film genre is out of favor with the people and sort of. So they don't want the audience to sort of just, you know, give that gasp of another superhero movie or another superhero show. They just want to see it or show it to us or to the fans or to the audience that they want to target as something serious. And with two actors that people are, one who is who stars Rising and one who has a been a good performer in past films. So I get that part. I didn't notice that he had the ring on Kyle Chandler. He had. He's wearing the ring. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Yep. [00:44:13] Speaker A: It just. I just wish it would have reminded me of the comic books or the animation. I don't know if the clothing that they. They wear in that have been similar to what they've worn in comic books or in animation. I didn't know. I didn't notice anything of that. It just looked like something Regular. So is it hasn't put me. It hasn't lessened my excitement for the show? [00:44:37] Speaker B: No. Yeah. Our complaints are not so much about that. They're more about, as I said, the quote reacher, details matter. Right. I mean, I think my reaction to it was that my first read was just exactly what I told you, which was like, I really think they're trying to make it seem not like a superhero show. They want the non comic book audience to discover that when they watch it. They don't want them to necessarily know that going in. We of course do know it. My complaints were I thought they could have been a little more attentive to some comics accurate details about the two characters. Like for example, Kyle Chandler's hair looks a little odd relative. Like Hal's typically blonde. Right. So it's like you can die. You can have Kyle Chandler be graying. But he should be graying from a blonde base, not a dark hair base. [00:45:24] Speaker A: His hair is kind of like brownish Hal Jordan. [00:45:29] Speaker B: I feel like he's drawn with like lighter colored hair. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Nah, he's usually like dark brown. I would say like brown is a very brown color. [00:45:38] Speaker B: You think it's totally brown. See, I look at it as like he looks like dirty blonde to auburn when I see it. They did get the. They did get the. Like it's not usually quaffed. Like his hair is usually a little bit crazy. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:51] Speaker B: So they're trying to do that. But I don't know. There was something about the way Chandler looked to me. I was like, I think they could have made him look a little more like comics how Than they did. And I kind of felt the same way about Aaron Pierre. Kind of was just like they didn't. I don't know, I just, I expected them to like, I don't was like, well, John has sometimes had facial hair, sometimes he doesn't like. It depends like which iteration. I thought for this one they were going to go facial hair just because Aaron Pierre's a little. But I guess they want him to look super young. But anyway, I just was like, there's some little stuff there facially that I felt like they could have tweaked to make them echo a little bit more what was on the page. But I think to your point, they're really trying to ride this on the backs of the actors. I think the image very clearly wants you to know, like this is we got Aaron Pierre and Kyle Chandler in a TV show. Like that's what the image really says. And when you listen to the in the article or you read kind of what's being said. I think the quote that really matters is, is Chris Mundy talking about how to adapt this on hbo, and he says our lanterns have the rings and all the powers they bring and other characters and aspects of the lore are going to show up or be name checked. But it's a series that explores who these guys are when they're on the job and when they're out of uniform. And it's designed to be accessible for people who don't know the mythology and hopefully satisfying for people that know it forwards and backwards. End quote. So that's what I mean. It's a mainstream entry point that they're hoping to do enough to make people like us happy. [00:47:23] Speaker A: And they're hoping to get people excited enough to see what's next. [00:47:29] Speaker B: To that point, though, Monday said something else. I actually like this, but I think it might disappoint you. Quote, we're not part of a larger storytelling plan right now. Season one is designed to be its own complete season of television that hopefully then can become many seasons of television. So he's claiming it's closer to Elseworlds to start and not hinting necessarily at where it's going to go yet. [00:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I doubt. I mean, he may not know what it's about, but I'm certain that it. There is possibly a connection to whatever future DCU James Gunn has in store, if that even comes to fruition. Who knows? Right now all of that stuff is in limbo. I feel like, remember Sting when he was. Everybody didn't know if he was going to be NWO or not, and he came. But the only thing that's for sure about Sting is nothing's for sure. [00:48:34] Speaker B: The thing I liked about his quote, though, was I like the fact that they're basically treating it like we all might only get one shot at this. I think shows always benefit when you're focused on the here and now and making something good. And if you earn it, then you get the chance to go for some. I have no doubt there will be Easter eggs. Right? We know Sinestro's in this. Like, we. There will be stuff that, like, could point you toward other things. But I like the fact that their assumption and their focus is we get. We're treating it like a limited series and if we get beyond that, awesome. So I am still fired up for it. But. And like I said, the HBO house is doing just fine, so the stewardship has been nothing short of great on that side. So I don't see any reason to be worried just yet. But that was the one positive. Let me. Can we end on the Batman? [00:49:23] Speaker A: Sure. [00:49:24] Speaker B: What do you think is really good? So my theory is Matt Reeves wants to include something in The Batman Part 2 that James Gunn also wants to include in Brave and the Bold. And they're having a thing about it and that's why the script can't get done. [00:49:39] Speaker A: What do you think that is? [00:49:40] Speaker B: No idea. But I would guess it's a villain. [00:49:43] Speaker A: And this is something that I've touched on in the past. Like if, listen, Matt Reeves is 2 for 2 with villains. There isn't anything that anyone can say to say that these villains haven't been done the way Matt Reeves has done. He has reinvented them while keeping these characters essence as to who they are and he. Any and. And he's done fantastic with him. Now if Matt Reeves decides to do a villain that James Gunn has been wanting to do, that's something that James Gunn now has to compete with. He can't do. Pull my finger. None of that with these characters. Because Matt Reeves did this with these characters and everybody's filling these characters. Now you can turn them over and completely chain them so you can do whatever you want with them and make him goofy with. With dumbass lines. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of people thinking, listen, I'm not a funny guy, but I. You know what I'm saying? I know what's funny, yo. James Gunn is not funny. There's the problem with having two guys doing two different things. James Gunn probably has thrown his hands up and said, like, you know what? I'm gonna do my own Batman because I can't wait for this guy. [00:51:07] Speaker B: It's interesting though, because I don't think the dispute is about Batman himself. I really don't. I think. I think it's probably not even the centerpiece of Matt Reeves script because they keep saying it's close to done. It's closer. I just have this. It just has this feel of like there's an element of this story, whether it's a single character or whether it's like a sequence or something that like Matt Reeves wants to include in. James Gunn is like, no, I don't want two of that out there. I'm okay with two Batman. I don't want two of that. And they're tussling over it. I just. It's. It's just dragging on too long for it to just be. I can't quite get it right. It just Feels like there's an ongoing conversation there and they're not on the same page about something. [00:51:48] Speaker A: It could be. That could be. But we're getting closer and closer to my. My possibility of two Batmans being out there. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's the. I think that's guns preference, clearly. Guns preference. Right. Which is why he says it at every turn. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm gonna leave you. The CEO's in the room. I just. If we get to that point. I'm just telling you, if. If Batman 2 makes a ton of money, I don't want to see it. I'm with you. I would rather see something totally distinct. But now that we know the CEOs in the room and he's just counting. Counting the duckets. If Batman Part 2 puts up massive numbers. And I'm telling you, Robert, Pat, everyone's been like, robert Patton's in this. Robert Patton's in that. That don't rule out the CEO putting his foot down and saying, this is the guy. Yeah, don't rule it out. [00:52:49] Speaker A: He's gonna pull rank, as they say. This is what goes. Make it work. But yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of all that's been happening with WB and DC and James Gunn's universe. Oh, again, all this talk about what you want to do means nothing. The focus should have. Oh, should have always been on Superman. And we're talking. Look at what we're talking about. Questioning whether Superman. Because I'm telling you, man, the excitement level is there. Everybody's anticipating this movie. They have it on their calendars. But how are they going into this movie? That's the question. With excitement. Which is great. That if that excitement is met with awesomeness. Yes. Then that means perhaps possibly repeat viewers, which is what you want. Or curiosity is to see what this version of Superman looks like. And if it's. Listen, again, James Gunn has been praised for his writing. He's been reviewed very well with. With movies. But has it brought in big numbers other than with Guardians? I think with Guardians in the MCU is just the MCU brand on top of that as well. It's not just James Gunn. So we're getting closer and closer for Jazzlov. Picking up that phone call. And just write down your number. Just write down your number. But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of the latest in the WB and the dcu. And we'll see you next time on the Nerd Jam Report. 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