Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerdy Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, lots to discuss, but before we get into some of those things, I just want to keep the audience up to date as to what or how we're going to be posting shows. So that way we're not wondering when are we going to be good at something now. So I'm think I'm thinking about putting out on the day after we record to put out the audio version first because that's usually the first thing I'm done with when I'm editing and then I'll release the video version. So if you want to listen to the audio version, you can definitely check us out on Spotify. I think we also have a feed over at itunes and other platforms as well. So check us out there. There. I'll put it in the description below. And I'm looking to be more consistent on posting on Wednesdays. If not Wednesday, then the audio will probably be Tuesday, then Wednesday the. The. The video version.
But let's get into what we're going to be talking about today because there's definitely a lot Penguin.
It was very much anticipated as to what, how this was going to end.
We had had our discussions on who would survive.
And I'm going to do a little part. I'm going to try to do a little montage. Right. Boy, cement. It's so hard to say goodbye. Put some pictures of him and Oz chilling. And then because I was like, oh, snap. And then my wife was very clever in figuring out what was happen, especially with Sophia.
Brian, what did you think of the episode and what did you think of that signal at the end?
[00:02:01] Speaker B: I thought it was an appropriate finale for what has been a consistently spectacular show.
I think they paid off the key themes of this show to deliver at the end of this show, the penguin, like, that's what this was. It was about the rise of Oscar. But in the end, in an emotional, meaningful, disturbing way, we got the Reeves verse version of the Penguin. And I have no other way to describe it, but they did it. And they pulled together some of these strands that I think when you would have first seen them in the show, you kind of would have said, okay, I'll go with this, but it's not necessarily what I expected. And let's see how they're going to move the pieces around.
And they got there. They also paid some tremendous cinematic homage in this episode. I was so fired up for their montage because of what it clearly was inspired by the Easter eggs and the connectivity felt a little bit lip service and kind of almost made me to our prior discussions, ask why we couldn't have had four more of these.
But listen, I'm also not going to be like, I'm not going to. I'm not going to grouse, man. I'm not going to take to the streets with a show this good. Because, you know, at the end of the day, the way they set up the continuity is they gave. They gave the people what they want, you know, a little bit. And you could say they should have done it more, but in the end, the way they did it on the way out, I don't hate. I mean, how could you hate it? Because it is sort of where we want to get to.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it's sort of. Now you got Batman. Now you have Batman's attention, right? You've done all of this, and now you have his attention.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Are you gonna play the Calvin Candy clip?
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Well, gentlemen, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
Brian. There was. There was a scene when Os Cobb was in the. I guess the.
What's the place where the mayor. Where all the.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: The courtroom kind of like. Yeah, it was a courtroom.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Wouldn't it have been nice? I could have sworn. I was like, my hopes went up too high when I saw it, but I could have sworn and it wasn't him. Because when they closed, when they did a close up, it wasn't him. But wouldn't it have been dope if Bella Rowe was talking to Bruce Wayne? And it was. And it would have been a callback to them wanting to have a conversation.
There's just these little things that could have worked out so great in this episode by just showing him with better out talking, whatever, him just. And him giving him a look, whatever. And it's just. It wouldn't have had nothing to do with the Penguin. Not really. But it certainly would have been setting up for what's to come.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: I keep wrestling with this because we keep talking about it, I guess where I've landed, I've tried to get in the showrunner shoes and the Reeves shoes to say, like, okay, look, I mean, they're the architects of this universe. This is clearly a point that had to have been debated somewhere in the creative process. Right. What do we.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Can't wait to hear the comment. I can't wait to hear the discussion.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: So, you know, it happened, right? You know, they thought about it. You know, they probably looked at. I mean, you could say are the dollars A part of it.
I think they would tell you it's too early for it. I think that would be their answer. That they would be more scared that little cameos of Pattinson or Alfred or Gordon would detract from Oz, Vic and Sophia, which is ultimately what this show kind of boiled down to. I think that's what their argument would be. Now I am going to guess because we'll talk about, you know, the talks have already started. The inevitable talks have started for season two, which we knew would be coming. We will get into the journey of Matt Reeves because I think this show changed, might have changed the trajectory of his relationship to the studio.
But I wonder if in season two of this you get that for the reason that they don't have to establish some of the things they did establish in this show. And if season two is somehow still connecting us to Batman 2 or if. I don't know if this will be the way they do it. But if season two, let's say, leads into Batman 3, let's say they do it that way. They wait longer.
I think you will see the cameos because their argument is going to be now the world of Penguin is more established and so we can bring that together more. I think that's the argument they would make to you as to why they didn't do it. Now I would counter to them. That's where the symbolism is, what the solution should have been. Fine, you don't want Pattinson there to distract. You don't want 80 Serkis there to distract or Jeffrey Wright.
Then I would say give us the tech, give us the symbol in the sky, give us the non physical manifestations of Batman to remind us that he's a step ahead and he's thinking through. That to me would not have distracted.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: And we talked about what they were doing.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: That would have been my counter to this.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: And we talked about it before where conversations from thugs would have been happening. That, that, that just briefly mentioned all this, you know, saying whatever it is. And again, even that you don't have pants. Wouldn't, wouldn't that even have to have spoken in that scene where Az Cobb looks up and Bella Rao is there and this other figure who is a Bruce Wayne but could have easily been Bruce Wayne and not said a word.
Yeah, I would have, I would have pushed back. I would have had. Yo, give me one, give me just one.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: That's why I said like that scene.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: That perfect would have been perfect, not dumb.
I get it.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: There's other characters. That's what I'm saying send Alfred, like, have Alfred cameo that. We know who he's repping. Right. If Gordon walks, if Gordon's the cop in one of the scenes, you know who he's talking to. Right. So there are ways to get at Batman without it being Batman. I just think that would have been their answer to you, is we wanted this distilled to the purest form of this character. And then, you know, we'll connect it more overtly in Batman 2. And then, like I said, I am curious in the, in this, in the second season, because that is going to happen.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Never.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Because it is gonna.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: They've already signaled it.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: And Colin Farrell, by the way, has completely changed his tune on the PR circuit. I watched two interviews he gave the other day. There's clearly been some phone calls on the back end. After, after, after, he kind of let his emotions go. And I, I don't blame him. He's been in the, his tune is like a 180, which is, which tells you, you know, you know, the discussion.
Exactly, Exactly.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: So, but getting back to the emotion of the finale, though, I, I, I gotta, I want to ask you about how did you feel about. Because I think it's, they're equally important. How did you feel about the resolution of the relationship to the mob?
Like the way they kind of really elevated that to drive home a point and then brought it to a head in that opening scene of the finale?
[00:10:09] Speaker A: The opening scene of the finale is Russ Calabresi talking to his mom. Right.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: It's the combination of the flashback.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Of the mom realizing and knowing that Oz killed his brothers and Rex offering these sort of door number one, door number two. I can put them on the payroll. We could take them out, like, all this sort of stuff. Right.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: And yeah, the way they set that up and revealing the true feelings and having Sophia orchestrated that whole thing was just, it had me in suspense as to what's happened, what's going to happen the next second. You ask yourself at what point, once you understand that she already knew, you wanted to find out, at what point did she change your mind? There was some glimmer of hope that she had in him based on his, what we call the hood game.
He's had it since he was young. It's crazy. The two worlds, people, the worlds that people create for themselves in one world.
His mom, last tears she's shedding is realizing that she's trapped and that she's not. She's going to be in the state she didn't want to be it's just wonderfully done. All he wants is this acceptance from his mom, the words of encouragement, and now he's never gonna get it. And then the more disturbing part, he's having this girl. It's crazy, yo.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: That's a whole other thing.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
I will say this before I want to hear what you have to say about it.
They're making it so that when the Batman does get his hands on that, we want Batman to beat his ass. But how and why?
Because Batman's not going to know all of these details, right? Batman is going to probably see him as he saw him before. Someone who he has to perhaps talk to to get some information.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: The points I would raise about that sequence at the Open. So first off, shouts to Ryder Allen, who plays young Oz, that is not an easy thing to do. And he did an amazing job.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: What's his name again?
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Ryder Allen, name of the kid who plays young Oz. I mean, talk about being twisted, like innocent. But you know, clearly, clearly, you know, got a real nasty streak to him.
The monster, as they said. You know, I thought there were a couple of things that stood out in that, in that scene with the mom though. So number one is a question, which is this. Who is Julian Rush really? And how much of what we were seeing from the mom's perspective was an actual flashback versus a special compound, drug induced, like hallucination? I think that's actually a question that's not totally answered. Like we're led to believe what we're seeing is a true flashback, but there are those moments where it does feel like it's been manipulated a little bit by the good doctor, who obviously people have speculated might be Hugo Strange.
Although that particular sequence probably evoked more Jonathan Crane in some people's minds.
But anyway, I found myself asking that. Like I'm feeling like I was being shown something that wasn't 100 true flashback. Whereas some of the other flashbacks we knew were, you know, history fact.
So that was the way, the way.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: I interpreted that though was whatever state that she was in where she was thinking back to that time was interrupted, somewhat similar to how Days of Future, Past something and Wolverine, whatever was happening was interrupted. That, that and he was coming, she was coming back to reality. And I think Russ was just trying to put it back and to say to keep going. Because when we go into this flashback, I'm led to believe that they're talking this out while we're seeing the actual vision of what she's explaining.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Fair. So number two is, I think the main Purpose of that scene in the end is to show, really, for the first time in the show, the only sequence where Os Cobb is truly unnerved and panicked is when he perceives his mom as vulnerable. Like, watch his emotions throughout, that he is begging the entire time for mercy.
He's. He's completely out of character that we're used to seeing, which I think the whole point of that is to drive home what comes later when he become. When he embraces the full penguin Persona, because that's the vulnerability, and you're seeing it. And he realizes in that moment he's weak.
That entire scene knows he's weak. He knows he's at the mercy of his captors.
And then ultimately it's his mom who. Who shivs him. But, like, I think what you see is he's just so discombobulated and he's just so desperate. But then you see the third thing, which is.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: He retains the survival mode.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Admit it. He's willing to let her finger be cut off.
And, like, you see Sophia's reaction, like, wow, you really were going to let her go down like that. And you see that throughout from the young Oz all the way through. He just has that code of not about clawing your way to the top, no matter how many bodies over which you have to do that.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: There was a. I was watching Screen Crush, and he mentioned that he almost sort of admitted it to. To Vic, which we'll get into in a moment, but they didn't really elaborate on, like, that.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: So you. But you see his expression where he's like. He's thinking about it, and you see that, like, flicker of conscience, and he's clearly unnerved and he's out of sorts. And then it's just like, it comes back over and he just won't do it. And he just reverts to. What are you talking about? You know, he just won't do it.
But I think that whole encapsulation is critical balance. I think if you don't have that, the end doesn't carry as much weight. It is not as jarring.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Because his expressions in that scene are completely different. And I think that's really what this show in the end, and trying to give an emotional arc to this guy that. This guy that's so twisted and tormented. But we've kind of been rooting for him all along. They have to get us to a place where we're like, rooting for him was a mistake, and they had to do that to us. Right. And so I feel like, this first scene is critical to that.
My second one for you is Sophia. In this episode, what do you think of sort of like the res. Sort of the resolution, if you will, of this chapter of Kristin Giliotti, how they leave her. And do you think that was the original version of this show? How it's left?
[00:17:43] Speaker A: I think what ends up happening to her is just the story of her life, I guess. Right. It's just she can't catch a break no matter what she wants to do is like, the Penguin actually turned her. Turned around. I didn't know why I didn't immediately catch on to that. Because he was already talking to the politician about what he can do. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.
So for Sophia and Child, to the costume designer, she looked great. Her costume, her wardrobe, her hair. Her wardrobe was amazing.
She changed so many times in this series, and she was convincing in all of those personalities and all those things that changed her. You understood why she was the way she was.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: I agree. There was a part of me that thinks that all along it pointed to her having to end up back in Arkham. Like that made sense as an arc. But there was a piece of me watching that last sequence wondering because we've heard these rumors about how Milioti kind of tested and how the character has been received of, like, was there another version where she was killed?
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's what I was referring Go to right now, because I don't put it. I don't think that they didn't have a version written for this. I think as they were going through it, they realized, van, if you're part of the production and you're watching this, you're watching the dailies, whatever it is, if you're part of this, you know, you. You have perhaps something great. You feel it, you know it.
And so they saw, perhaps midway as they were writing this, things change. And she is a character that I think is needed and a character that everybody wants to see perhaps at some point come out with a win.
They. And I think they've given her that with this other possibility that they introduced.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think it's like I said, I really do think the parallel here is to Farrell himself in the Batman. I have to think that they were as they were watch the filming of that movie they had. I mean, that's clearly what germinated. This show is like, they're watching this guy transform and they're like, we have something, and then that leads to this show. And I think it's similarly the Way she comes in, like a force of nature from her very first scene. They had to have seen that and kind of been like, we can rework the theme of crime and the theme of Court of Owls or whatever they're planning to do. There's room for the Hangman, right? This is a comics character. I mean, like, Sophia, like Sophia Gigante is a character, is not like a character that they made up out of thin air. So there is a comics lore they can draw on here. And then you're right. They set up the obvious connectivity back to Selena Kyle, which was kind of an obvious sort of elephant in the room in this show of, like, they spent time on Carmine's. I don't know what to call it, his sort of sick fetish or whatever it was. And you obviously know from Zoe Kravitz's, you know, act in the first movie, like, there's real damage there.
And then. So they tie that in. And then obviously, I think as a, you know, you're sort of watching Sophia and you're kind of like, we're seeing her as this foil for Oz or for Sal, but I don't know how you don't watch that and not imagine her as a foil for Batman, too. Someday to be like, could she mastermind some kind of twisted, you know, scheme against Batman? And especially if Julian Rush is Hugo Strange, then, like, all the more reason that you've got sort of like this alignment of Batman villains against him at some point. So I don't know. Like, it just. It gives you possibilities how much you pull on it. Who knows?
Was the eighth episode her best episode? I don't think so. I actually think the fourth episode was her best episode.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Her episode?
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: There's a lot of episodes that are great in this series for her. The fourth episode is great for the Penguin. He has his episode where he's magnificent as well.
There is, and I'll use the word that stuck into my mind when I first saw the movie Three amigos and a plethora of possibilities.
It's hard when you're watching or when you're producing something like this and you're watching the dailies and you're watching the progress of this show, and you're seeing again, you recognize greatness. And it's hard to be like, oh, this is just gonna be one season. It's. It can't. Especially knowing what you missed out on.
And like you said, they're not gonna do it twice.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Well, I want to do, like, a little, like, Olympic medal stand or podium but before we leave this show, I think she got. I think she got clipped at the wire, though. I, I want to go through it as far as who. Like, if you were to give a gold medal, silver medal, bronze medal for performances in this show, I actually think she got, she got clipped in this show by. By just a hair.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: By Oz.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Nope. Because of. By Vic.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: I think Vic nipped. I got her at the, got her at the wire on this one because he. I think. I don't know what you think, but I thought this was an amazing episode for Vic.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, the speech. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: Machinations leading to, you know, honestly, the last scene, which, if you don't feel something in that last scene, I don't know what you've been watching because it's just. It's heart wrenching. You realize what's about to happen.
But his, his progression paying off. You know, this stuttering kid from episode one to this, I mean, it's one of those Renzi Feliz. It's like, I'm almost like. I know we, I know we kind of have killed the classic Robin thing, but I'm kind of like Jason Todd. Could he be Jason Todd? Could we do that? Could we bring him back for the Dear Dead to be Red Hood? Because he's so good. It's, it's. It's a shame that. It's a shame to lose him if we, if we really don't get any more Victor Aguilar and any for him. Because that was. I thought this was a tour de force from him in episode eight.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: And everybody, all. Victor said that this dude, he was just a character. He played a good character.
And, you know, this would definitely release him from any duties to continue on, on that, you know, to put that on the schedule. He'll have other things that he'll probably star in that we'll be looking forward to seeing how he does there.
But yeah, that is the thing that people are talking about the most. It was hard. It was like, damn, Damn. And then you start thinking about, like you said, how all of what happened prior to this and how this just makes sense for who he is.
And he realizing he has to adapt.
And to adapt, he has to realize that, you know, having people that are close to you having that vulnerability, I can't have it. And when he said that F word, if Vic would have just said, well, what we doing next? I think he would have survived.
Instead, he, he went into some sentimental stuff.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah, he's A family with the second. He said, you're. You're like my family. And, like. And to me, like, that's.
That's such a more powerful way for Oz to become the Penguin.
That. That's what. Like, that's what I mean. When you watch Pharrell's expression, that entire scene, he's in complete control.
He's not panicked.
Even though he says, you know, he admits that he kind of has the feelings. He's completely glazed over because he knows what he's. He knows what he has to do. It is so Michael Corleone. It's ridiculous, right? It's that moment where Michael Cor becomes the Godfather, and his expression, he, like, loses the emotion that, to me, was. You know, it's amazingly disturbing. But it's also just really good storytelling to make you believe that this sort of seemingly silly idea of a character. Right. The Penguin is kind of silly. Hat, umbrella. You know, like, so that when you get the Rolls Royce and you get the suit and they show you the hat and they show you the umbrella, that's not really what you see. Like, what you see is the essence of the Penguin. And it's like. And now you're like, I rooted for this guy. Like, where the. Where's Batman at? Like, this guy needs to go like you. And that. That's the point. Like, and that's the whole point of the payoff, which, by the way, I do need to speak of the Godfather. The montage of the killings is straight out of every Godfather movie. That is literally a scene in all three movies where they do the whackings.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: And they show you, like, as the main characters are driving or doing something else, they cut, like, to these individual killings in rapid succession. It's a hundred percent a nod to that. And I thought it was brilliantly done. And I don't think it's lost on anyone. The whole point of that scene is they show the number twos all killing the number ones.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: And then Oz turns around and says, I ain't letting that happen. I'm gonna kill my number two before he can get a chance to kill me. And that's like another this completely calculated move that they put in there, which is. You know, that's why this show is what it is.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I. You know, when I realized that that dude is the director from Entourage, Vince's director for Queens Boulevard, was in that courtroom scene. I could, for some reason, I don't know why I didn't recognize him before about. Oh, snap. I forgot his name. In that show.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Well, shouts to. Shouts to Reese Coiro, who is a high school classmate of mine. So, yeah, we talked about him briefly. We talked about him briefly because he guest starred in she Hulk, and his wife is the director of that show. So I can't, like, say too much about that, but he was always the best actor in our class growing up. And some of the mannerisms in that scene with Colin Farrell are literally the same ones that he's done since he was a teenager.
So it's pretty cool to see him doing that now. So shout shouts to. Shouts to Councilman Haiti.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: So the demands placed on Reeves.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Oh, wait, hang on. Before we leave it, do you want to rate the show? And then I want to. And I want to say gold, silver, bronze. If you said. Because I think it's obvious who in the top three are. So if you said Pharaoh Milotti and Renzi Feliz, who won the show, who finished second, who finished third, I would say.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: But Ren Feliz, I think he had to undergo the biggest transformation.
Sophia had undergun a lot of transformations, but she was already who she was when we first met her, and Penguin was already who he was when we first met him.
Crazy Feliz was a different. You know, he's. He was lost.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: So that's your gold medalist. You give him the.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him and then Oz and then her.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: So I think at the midway point, I would have picked Miladi off of her episode. I would have said she's in the lead making the turn. But I agree with you. I think she wound up in the bronze medal position. I think Farrell did enough to win his own show in the end. I do think. And the reason I say that is I think especially in this finale, I think he and Vic were going at it head to head in terms of who was the best in this episode. But I actually give Pharrell the nod because of the emotional display with the mom, the coldness of the end, and then the. I don't know what twisted thing he was doing with his mom and his lover. I think that to me was like, the. This ain't just the Penguin. He is like unhinged Penguin. And I think that actually made me so much more excited for Batman 2 and 3 and whatever he's going to do in that, because I was like, this guy is like, before, it was like he was twisted, but he. He kind of every. His moves made sense.
This was like, this guy's got something seriously wrong with him, and he's dangerous. So I actually think Farrell did enough to win his own show, but I agree with you. It was a lot closer.
Like, if you said at the start of the show what this was going to look like, I don't even think Vic would have been like in the conversation.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: So he's kind of like. He's. He. He was coming at the line. He's kind of catching, you know, catching. Pharrell, you. I give you a couple episodes, you probably would have gotten there, but I think it says a lot that you have three performances that ought to probably, certainly will be nominated, but I would think they at least win two of the three, if not all three.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Word up. I. I think this Emmys will be the most watched.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: Interesting. Interesting. And then show rating. What do you want to give it? I think there's only really two choices, so go ahead.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: I said before that I would give it 4.5 out of 5 no matter what. Because of that. Because you know what it is. I don't want to talk about it anymore.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: They didn't do enough to. To overcome that in your book.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Too little, too late for me. When. When I. When I saw it, I was like, you should have saw me.
[00:31:51] Speaker B: I get it. No, I get it. I get it. I get it. I'm. I'm not going to argue the point. I'll give it to 5 anyway just because I think it's so well done. And I just like. The thing I like most about the show is, like I said, I think all. There's just. No. There's no slump in this show. Like, there was never, like, an episode where I was like, well, that was filler. Like, There was never 15 minutes in an episode where I was like, well, what a waste. We could have been doing something else. You know what I mean? Like, it is rare. That's why we'll talk about Andor. But, like, it is rare when you have a show that can go wire to wire, where I feel like every scene and every minute works. And I think this show did it. So I'm. I'm giving it the five for that.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. That is on the conversation below. Was you guys started the Penguin series ending, but you thought of the bat signal at the end.
Yet Ryan Reeves, what is expected of him?
[00:32:45] Speaker B: You know, coming off of The Batman Part 1, they were all about Matt Reeves, right. Which is why this universe was created effectively with his guidance. And then it kind of felt like the relationship almost soured a little bit. Like it kind of felt like they were starting to maybe say, okay, Your else worlds let you finish your trilogy. That's nice. Your other shows, we're going to kind of scrap those and repurpose them. You can finish the Penguin. We'll see how that goes. And now it's like the Penguin has become this eventized T, you know, prestige TV show, and they're like, hey, Matt, what else you got, man? What else? What else? What else you got?
We need more shows in Gotham. What's up? Like, you know, that's what it feels like all of a sudden.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: So word up.
What?
Killer Croc. What's up?
It's like they're reaching for everything here, you know? But, hey, wouldn't you be if you were.
Had the opportunity to speak to him? Like, yo, what else are you thinking about? Because this is outstanding, right? And you would. And I would think, you know, and you would know more than me, Brian, because you read into this a lot. But the people involved in this is one of those people, those groups that you just keep tight and to move on and continue doing this a la Daredevil. Netflix. Right.
So you spoke about a season two.
[00:34:27] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: So that they're not thinking about. I mean, it's crazy how they're talking about it like. Like talking about it heavy right now. And we were talking about if you. If you watch the Nerd Jerry Report or you listen to the Nerd Jerry boy, you know, we are. We. We been talk about this. Yeah, now they're really talking about it. What's next?
Yeah, they're going to give us the season two, I would think, because the opportunity to do that Batman release right after Brian is just. Just layup.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Some of that will depend on how much Reeves and Lauren lafran had already conceived of for a season two. Like, you know, these people are. The creatives, always have ideas. Right. So how much of those ideas were actually crystallized before these discussions even took place? If they don't have much, then maybe it's the lead into Batman 3. Now, Colin Farrell said he's got five or six scenes in Batman 2. That's what he's been told. Right. So again, that tells you Oz is on the outside. He's not yet center stage.
And I'm okay with that. Like, if they want to save him to be even bigger in Batman 3, then too, I'm fine with that. But I think that.
[00:35:36] Speaker A: But Penguin isn't a Thanos level sort of dude. You think they're making him a Thanos level type antagonist that, you know, how do. How do you resolve Oz without making it Corny.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: So I'm going to make. I'm going to make like an analogy. You'll probably get it. I don't know if everyone watching will get it. You know how you do it? You make him like Bobby the Brain Heenan, right? Like, Bobby the Brain was ubiquitous in the 80s WWE. But he was never the one in the ring, right? But he was the guy ringside pulling the strings for like Andre the Giant when he turned bad, like all this sort of stuff. And that's what I mean. Like this guy might always be the guy behind the guy. And it just might be one of those where they don't move him into the spotlight until they want to wrap this up. Because it might be that whatever Bruce's arc is in this trilogy, it'll lead to other villains. We know that. And maybe it's Gordon, Alice, Hush, like all these other things. But in the end, he might have to solve Oz on some level because Oz now holds the keys to crime in Gotham. And so you may not need to have a punching match. Right? That's not really what we want to see. He has to out think him. And that might be how you can make Oz that level of film.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: There it is. Oz has been able to out think everyone and outsmart everyone. Out talk everyone.
Can he do those same things to.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Batman when Batman is focused on him? See, that's the other thing. Batman knows he's not a good guy. Like, he knows that, but he hasn't been focused. He has never been the primary objective. Right. He's never been the Lex Luthor to.
And so that's why I think maybe they're saving that for. Maybe they realize, like, hey, with this character, like he's so popular, we got to milk this a little bit and like build him into. He's got to be the mastermind of wherever we're taking this sort of crime drama. You know, I'm okay with that. I mean, I'm okay with that. When you go on Max now, it's interesting. Like, the Batman is still one of the top two movies being watched. I've checked every week since this show has come out. It has never been lower than number two and the most watched movies catch label. So don't tell me the studio is. Is not going to try to take advantage of that in some way if they do a Season 2.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: Matt Reeves, his door is getting knocked on a lot in emails, text and all this stuff. And he's probably never gotten this much attention before, even with his success.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: I mean, like I said Farrell now, when you watch him, you can find it stuff he's done. Just Google's interviews he's given in the last, like, two to three weeks.
He is now singing the praises of the makeup. He's singing the praises of the costume. He's saying how wonderful it was. And he didn't do anything. He just showed up and sat there and he's like. He's like, yeah, I saw one the other day. He was like, you know, an hour number three. He's like. They'd see me tapping my fingers against my knee and they'd know that I was getting a little squirrely, and they'd have to reassure me. He's like, but it was so amazing when I saw what they did in the mirror. Like.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: We happy?
[00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah, we happy.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Brian. Joker series.
What is this talk now?
I just want to put this out there.
If you found the Penguin a bit disturbing, at what level would you be taking the Joker if he did it, if he had his own series? Because the way they said this, they're saying this up and they could set this up, is to have these series that. At the end of the day, Ryan, what we want is to. Is for Batman to get these guys.
How's he gonna get it? Hopefully it's not Dark Now Rises, where. Oh, you missed one. And he kicks the dude and he's over. You remember that scene?
Yeah, yeah. And he kicks her. It was just a stupid. I was like, chris, what are you doing? Anyway, it can't be nothing like that.
So the intrigue there is. How is Batman gonna get after these guys? But buying Joker series. Is this something that you.
I know you said what Jokered out.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: But on the strength of the Penguin and the possibilities and again, the level of craziness, hardcore and drama and viciousness, whatever it is, that whatever adjective you. You can describe the Joker as, can they level that up? And they. And they. Should they level that up and should.
I mean, at some point we're going to be interested in the joke or how do you. How do they approach this? This is just a rumor. Correct.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: So I'll give you the James Gunn's response to this, because he. He. He chimed in, I think this would be a mistake. I think the failure of Falya Deux actually will kill this before it starts. I don't think it will happen. And James Gunn, at least for the moment, you know, we don't take. Yeah, we don't take everything at face value here, but at least for the moment, weighed in and he said, I don't know where this came from. This is not something we are considering. This is not something we have ever considered.
And I would note it's James Gunn who weighed in to say that, right? Because technically the Barry Kogan Joker is part of Matt Reeves universe. It's not the vcu. So it is interesting that gun, as the overseer kind of said, this is not a discussion and has never been a discussion.
So here's the reason. I think it's a mistake and I don't think it will happen.
The reason. Part of the reason the Penguin works the way it does is because the character was kind of backdoor piloted in the Batman. And then there's the forward momentum of this show connecting it to Batman 2 with these successive payoffs that we expect we'll get for this character. If you start the Barry Keoghan Joker in the Reivers verse now, how is that possibly going to pay off? Where is that arc? You don't have the time, right? So you're going to give him a season and then what? Now he's going to have how many scenes in Batman 2 or 3? Like, you just run out of space. He doesn't fit what they're building here.
And this is why we talked about for the crime drama and the battling kind of war in Gotham.
I get it, the crown prince from crime is who he is. But like, he's kind of an. He's kind of not the right outlet. That's why stuff like hush. I don't know if it'll be Hush, but stuff like that makes more sense because for this world, that type of villain kind of fits as like the arm or the face or the muscle of. Of these families more so than the Joker's chaos. So I don't, I don't see it. And I do think Falya do matters because that, that movie failing so spectacularly and people reviling the character, I think the studio will be hesitant to just throw another Joker in the mix.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: That's why I asked that question, man, some time ago. Even though perhaps it's still gonna mean anything in the long term. But in the short term, it's quite possible that Todd Phillips is going to take a chill period before he gets. There's going to be some time before he gets some, like, serious work. Obviously he's a moneymaker, but the way people have been destroying the joke.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: Oh yeah. No, it is one of the biggest disappointments of all time relative to expectation. But I will not accept people saying it's one of the worst movies ever. Made because there's movies in this genre that look worse where the performances are just as bad. Yeah, like, come on. People need to like review the history here. Like, you know, pull up, pull up. Quest for peace and stuff like that. Like, you know, like, it's just not ghost that, you know, it's just not that bad. But like shot. It's a shocking result. Coming from where they were in the first one is one of the biggest letdowns for something that should have been a layup for the studio. So, yeah, I think Todd Phillips is going to make a comedy somewhere that's. I mean, that's what he'll do next. He'll make a comedy that you know.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: But yeah, I agree with you, Brian. Joker is something that we don't really necessarily need right now. We've just had too many great. Not even. It doesn't even have to. We've had too many iterations and of the Joker and some have been great, some haven't been. But that is a subject matter or character that has to be treated very carefully.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: So the Leto Joker was not successful.
Joaquin's Joker started out really successful and winds up kind of with a mixed. I mean, you can't take away the first one.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: I mean, the guy's got an Academy Award for it. But the totality of the work, his legacy took a hit on the second one. But then his, you know, that's what I'm saying, that we don't need another life. And then on top of that, you know, we've got a couple of Harley Quinn's. Right. Like Margot Robbie did a good job of. Audiences didn't respond to it. Lady Gaga, people didn't respond to. We just. We just don't need those two right now.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: That is true. But I think what people would more would be more curious about is what is a joker in Matt Reeves world?
And that is the question they're asking of every other rogues gallery. What is he in this will be in the Riddler. We weren't disappointed in that rendition. Right.
The Penguin.
What are we talking about here?
[00:45:59] Speaker B: I think it'd be tough for Kogan to. I think it'd be tough for Kyogen.
[00:46:02] Speaker A: Yes, it would.
Yes, it would.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Because Farrell definitely was different enough from Paul Dano. And I don't think anyone's gonna come. I think Paul Dano did a really disturbing, you know, nice rendition of the Riddler. But Colin Farrell's in another.
[00:46:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, right.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: That's not a comparison.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: We got his own show.
[00:46:21] Speaker B: That's not A comparison at this point. What's my theory? Why is he in there at all?
So I think the Joker will be part of the ending of this trilogy because these things never end. And the reality is this is Batman in year two.
So you know that Reeves is not going to leave this the way Christopher Nolan did with the idea of, like Christian Bale's. Bruce Wade has actually left the alter ego behind.
I think the Barry Keoghan character will be left there as an Easter egg to kind of say this young Batman grew up fighting this crime war and he sort of reaches some victory, some resolution to that.
But he will now be ready to take on the Joker in some future thing that Rat Reeves right now does not plan to make, but the studio will someday offer him whatever he wants to make. That's what I think is going to happen here. We happy?
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of this Joker rumor series.
James Gunn denial of it. I think James Gunn's a little bit like, jealous that Mary is getting all the shine and the love for what he's doing in that else world.
And his stuff hasn't even come out yet. None of it.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: Like I said, I think. I think the conversations are always fluid. Right. I mean, the fact that Matt warriors is Elseworlds and not part of the DCU now doesn't mean he can't be part of it later as a different. You know, I will point out there will be another version of the Joker which everyone will be excited to see.
That's the one in Caped Crusader season two. That one we are excited to see. And I think when you see that one, the way they've set it up, you might be asking for a version of that in live action at some point.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Break. Yeah, I'm telling you, I think Marie is feeling a certain way because people are excited about. Listen, at one point I. I was saying that if James Gunn had announced his casting for Brave and the Bold and. And get the. And start rolling that out, even though he. He won't, because he wants all the love of the fans to go towards the soup, towards Superman. But a lot of that excitement, a lot of the talk is going towards Batman, towards that world, the world that Matt Reeves is built, not James Gunn. And this world that Matt Reeves has done is a bit serious. What is James Gunn if his. I mean, we know what to expect with this movie, with Superman. Is it going to be a completely different type of thing? But will people gravitate towards it?
[00:49:13] Speaker B: Is what I'm saying I think James Gunn's job is harder in that sense. I think Superman is a harder character to make relevant and beloved and not silly in the way that Richard Donner was able to do, you know, in the 1970s. We're not in the 1970s anymore, so I think it's harder to do that. I think Batman, through the years, we found that you can do Batman, and people typically respond to it. Right? We've even said, like, as flawed as the Snyderverse was, like, act like, as Batman is not bad. Like, he's not bad.
Other than Clooney, Batman has typically resonated in different forms, you know, and it's kind of work. It's. Superman's been much harder to capture. And so I think. So I think in some ways, like, Reeves did something really original with his world, but he did it with a character that the degree of difficulty for success is a little bit lower. Like, it's just. Batman sells, you know, and Superman has kind of does it. Right. So I think what James Gunn is trying is harder.
I also think, look, in fairness, Matt Reeves spent so much time in this. In this world, I would be pretty shocked if he wrapped up the trilogy of movies and then made another comic book movie. He may remain the executive producer for some Batman TV shows, but, like, the way this guy works, where it's like 50 takes 60, I mean, he's gonna be worn out by the end of this trilogy. Like, he's gonna take a break, kind of like he did after Planet of the Apes before he came and did the Batman.
[00:50:47] Speaker A: So, yeah, Let us know in the conversation below what you guys think of his world. The Batman world. The Batman universe that Matt Reeves has created, this Penguin show has been tremendous.
Is. I don't envy Reeves in that the amount of conversations and contacts that he's getting now is just crazy.
The asks are getting crazy. And there's just a lot of conversation about this world and how it fits in. For me, how it fits into. And it doesn't. It doesn't fit into James Gunn's world. But would it interrupt the excitement for his world? I don't know. I don't know. Let's see. Superman will tell the title.
Superman will tell the title. Let us know in the comment section below. We'll see you next time on the Jerry Report.
