Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd Jam Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, when I was watching, I think I was watching Christian Harlov.
And then they started showing these chairs of actors names on the chairs. And these actors names on the chairs are the people that are going to be in Avengers Doomsday. And I'm watching this and I'm looking at other people watching this and hearing what people are saying. And everybody was complaining about this structure of introduction. Everybody was complaining. I'm sure they weren't complaining too much as they were getting super chats. So thank them for that. But everybody was complaining.
I want to ask you this.
Was it marketing genius on the per. On. On behalf of the person that thought of this?
And if it was me pitching this, it would have been me saying, this is going to be painful for a lot of people. But we want people to just talk about the movie. We want this to be etched into their minds. Regardless of how painful it is. We're going to get people to complain about how we're doing this, but at least everybody's going to be thinking about it. Good or bad people are going to be thinking about this. What were your thoughts on how they revealed the actors for Doomsday? And I've read that this isn't the totality of the.
The people that are going to be in this movie. There's still yet another list of people that are going to be showing up. Perhaps they save it for San Diego Comic Con. Who knows what they're doing.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: But what were your thoughts so unequivocally, unambiguously? The answer to your question is yes, it was marketing genius. You can't. The end of the day, like proofs in the numbers, right? This is the kind of thing that, like, you know what, what did Rashid Wallace say? Ball don't lie, right? Numbers don't lie, right? So this thing, just to give you a sense of how effective this actually turned out to be in an era where we have certainly been on this growing train of superhero fatigue and Marvel lost it. Do people even care? Because some of the numbers have been going the wrong way, right? Box office going the wrong way. Here are numbers that went the right way.
275 million views, day of 3.1 million social mentions, five times the volume of the Deadpool and Wolverine super bowl trailer, which is the most watched trailer of all time. Let me repeat that five times. The mentions and volume of the most watched trailer of all time.
That's. I don't know what to say. If I'm the guy, if I'm the person who came up with that, I just put that on my office wall and say, where's my promotion? Because you can't argue with that.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: So the short answer is yes. It lasted five and a half hours. It got people talking.
There were 55 different terms that trended on X throughout the day related to the announcement. Avengers doom. Hashtag Avengers doomsday was the number one trending item for over seven hours. After 24 hours, the channel itself was number two on trending. Still number two on trending, despite it being nothing more than 26 blank empty chairs and one chair with Robert Downey.
So this was an. This was probably Marvel's best success since Deadpool and Wolverine came out, and probably one of the top three things they've done since Avengers Endgame. I don't know what else to say. It like it. This was a home run of home runs in terms of presentation. And this movie badly needed it. Badly needed it.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: So as everyone was complaining about that, we can't stay on this long for this. And they were still there complaining every minute and just finding a way to stick with it, you know.
And they did. And they did. Yeah. It was definitely. I was. While I was watching it and watching other people watch it, I was trying to get even Freddie or somebody so that we can watch it and talk about what each of these characters meant for the movie. What were you thinking in regards to the story?
[00:04:28] Speaker B: I think the rumor mill is going to be pretty close on this one. And it has been. It's funny because, like on Superman, there's been a lot of rumor mill that, like, no one's that close on what this movie's actually about at its core. Like the plot points. I think this one people are on it by confirming that Tom Hiddleston is in this movie, to me, is a pretty big drop that, like Loki at the end of time is a significant piece and MacGuffin to this story. I think confirming that the Fantastic Four, which we've known for a while was gonna be in this movie, is a significant piece toward the new MCU that we've talked about. I think the fact that so many of the 20th Century Fox X Men show up in this is, to me a confirmation of things starting to get formally tied off.
So that I would say those would be my main takes. And if you notice in my main takes, what is not on there is the current Avengers roster, because they just don't matter. The few of them who made the list, to me are kind of like, whatever.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: And we could talk about some of them who didn't, who probably will be in the next one. We could talk about names who didn't, who Marvel already teased there's always room for more.
But I think we also got another news scoop that made me think about.
We need to start thinking about a broader set of movies as more connected than we probably imagined. We need to start thinking about Fantastic Four, Doomsday, Spider Man 4, Secret wars as all part of the same thing because they got to make up for lost time with the Kang situation. They have to create movie where there is no movie.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: And so we got another piece of news after this as far as who might be joining the Fantastic Four movie. When I was like, aha, you guys are spreading this out because you realize you have to make all these movies make money, but you also have to get this single narrative cleaned up, and you just can't do it in one film. So you have to kind of now use what you got on your schedule to get us to Secret wars with some hope that this is all going to make sense.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Would you say it's better to say, create a movie where there is no movie, but instead say create a story where there is no story?
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Correct. That's what I'm saying is that, like, before, when they gave us the calendar, like, okay, let's say there's six movies between now and Endgame. So you kind of know, like, hey, we got six slots. We got 12, and we got 14 hours to complete our narrative in this case, like, they're on top of it. Like, they're out of. That's my point, is there's not, like, another seven slots on the calendar. Right. All we've got is Fantastic Four, the two Avengers movies themselves, and Spider Man. That's kind of it. So you have to make your narrative work within the context of those four films. And I think they're. They're. They're doing this. We'll see how successful. But I think they're using what they have at their disposal to generate excitement and try to spread this cleanup of the Multiverse saga into more than one place.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: What did you think of Simu Lou when his name was introduced?
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Oh, he. Well, I texted you. I said, okay, so we can talk about this list. I can't do it. Let's not do everyone on the list. There's 27 people, but let's do a little bit of, like, have fun with this.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: The person who was most excited to see his own name on a chair, Simu Lu.
I wanted that would have been like on the day of the NFL draft where they cut to the family viewing party at home. That's what I wanted for Simu Lu. When his chair came up, that dude would have been like cartwheeling on his house.
His family would have been jumping up and down like he's on the phone to the G to Kevin. Be like, you're in it. You're in it.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: I made it.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: I made it. He was the most excited that he made the cut.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: I would have been. If I were Chris Hemsworth, I would have been a little bit rubbed the wrong way for his name to be pop. For his name to pop up first out of all those.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Why is that? Why? Why is that? You want to be last?
[00:08:35] Speaker A: No, I wanted to be next to Loki, not the first guy. You know what I'm saying? I would have probably introduced what's her name, the ghost character, as number one. All those, I would say, lesser known characters are not. Chris Hamilton is a big deal.
You know, Thor is a big deal.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: I think that's why he was first.
I got to be honest. I think they. I think they wanted an OG first and an OG of sorts last. And if you think about it, the way they structured it, they only had the two of them really available. I think all of the originals are in the secret. By the time we get to the end of Secret wars, all of them will have shown up. But the way they did this announcement, if they weren't going to have Johansson or Renner really was going to have to be one of Downey. Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth was going to have to be, in my opinion, be in that lead off spot. And so they didn't use Evans because I think they're going to use him somewhere else. Downey was going to be last for obvious reasons, because he's being new. I think Hemsworth being first actually made sense. But I agree with you.
I think it would have been cool if they had had Hiddleston second. I actually would have liked it that way. One, two, punch out of the gate. Like we're going to get that. These guys are going to be on screen together again at least one more time.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Well, at least that's the hope that they're on screen together.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: They will, they will. They're not gonna. They're not, you know, they're not. For all the things Marvel's done wrong, they're not blowing.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Who else were you like, okay, Neymar, I.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Actually, I. This was one. I wasn't totally sure if he. Even though there had been Doom connections to Wakanda forever, I wasn't sure if, given the way this story has morphed, if. If how much we were gonna pull on The Black Panther 2 kind of universe for. For this film. I knew Shuri would be in it for obvious reasons, but, like, when I saw Neymar's name, I was like, oh, I'm just curious. I'm just curious what his role in this is, because I like the performance, but it almost felt like with everything else going on at Marvel, it was risking getting kind of shunted to the side.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: I'm sure, again, everybody was complaining about how long this was and how they did this.
Listen, if they did it again, I'm pretty sure people were complaining, but they'll be watching. They will be watching to see who else, right? But the way it ended, Ryan, because we were perhaps waiting for something grand, and I'm sure RDJ thought of himself as grand. It's similar to. You know what it reminded me when the doors open and then the figure walked in. It reminded me of Incredible Hulk at the end. That end credit scene with Ross.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. At the bar.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: The team together.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yes. See, again, this is what I. I didn't. I. I was like, is it. Is it just about you, man? Is it just about you?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: So I think that moment, I didn't have a problem with it.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Only because I knew it was coming. Does that make sense? Like, I kind of was like, I knew what I was getting, so I wasn't, like, put off by it, because I'm like, I know who's going to be last, and I know he's going to be in the chair. Like, I know that's going to happen.
But I think if he wanted to score real points for the character, he should have done it in costume with the mask on.
Then I would have given him the respect of, like, you didn't show your face. I saw your name on the chair. But as a reveal for how Doom was going to look like, which I think would be a moment in itself, I would have given you much more credit if you had. And you still could have been a little cheeky because we're not doing the movie yet, you could have done this to the mask the same as he did, but I would have felt a little differently about it. Said, oh, this Downey is trying something different. Whereas what showed up in the chair was Tony Stark in his suit, acting like, yeah.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Which.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Well, people say they're one in the story. Life and art are kind of intertwined there. Right. But. But that's my point. It.
Iron man was in the chair, not Victor Von Doom.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That was the.
Like, I knew he was gonna be the last guy or we. I felt like he was gonna be the last chair to be announced. But for him to be the only one to come out was like.
It was like. It was unnecessary to me. Yeah.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: I don't know. But I. But that's the only way it could go. I mean, to my mind, it's like, you know, again, to get him back. The negotiations to get him back. Like, you got no say in these matters.
Like this, how this works. Yeah, that's how this works.
Couple others, 20th Century Fox, X Men.
And who was on the list for this reveal? What was your reaction? Because I have one in particular where I was like, oh, interesting.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: To me. The one that I sort of like, okay, hopefully they can do him right this time. James Marsden.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Bingo.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Because, you know, obviously he, you know, his character died.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: He's out.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And now he's back. Are they going to do him? Have they heard the cries of those fans who said. Who has said that they did him wrong? They did him dirty. That character shouldn't have been presented in that light, which was useless.
Right. And now we get him back. So this is a second chance. That is the character I'm looking. I would say more because I don't know if you saw it, Brian. There's a leak of him in costume of the X Men. 97. Yes, there's been.
There's a leak.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: He looks good, by the way.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah, he's.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: He's physically.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah, they messed up because he is the perfect Scott Summers.
And Marsden is good. He's always been a good actor and everything that he's pretty much done.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: But I think so. I'll be interested because I think Marsden today is better able to do it than Marsden was 25 years ago.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: I think so. Because he's not going in as just a guy doing a job. I think he understand the character this time maybe, and has heard perhaps what people have had to say about his cyclops and wants to please those which are millions of fans and do that character the right way, as he should have.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: But I think Marsden is a better actor now. He was a young guy when he got Scott Summers in the late 90s. Right. He had done some of those like kind of teen tween. He had done some of those, like teen, younger Actor type movies that became sort of cult hits. Marsden now, like, you watch him in paradise where he's the president. He's really good. Like, as a dramatic actor. You watch him on jury duty where he's doing a quasi reality complete comic character. He's really good in that show. Like, Marsden as actor is better now than he was. And I think for Scott Summers as prime of life leader of the X Men, he's actually more age appropriate or looks more age appropriate now than he did. So I actually think I had the same reaction because of what happened in Last Stand of like, how are they going to. Like, did he get that call? And he was like, y'all have the right number.
You do know, right? Like, you do. You guys see Last Day? And he's like, I know people don't like it, but did you see what happened to me?
[00:16:51] Speaker A: I think it has to do with Days of Future past in that movie.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Probably. I think you're probably right. But I was. That was the one that opened my eyes the most. And I will say, like, if they do bring him back, they didn't announce her, but do you feel like Famka Jansen has to also come back for this to have real resonance? Because do we need a Scott and Gene moment or do you not care? You just want Scott.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: I.
It's always been Scott's identity for his associ. For his association with Jean Gray. I don't know what she looks like now.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: She still looks like Fama Johnson. Yeah. I mean, she's older, but. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: I just never.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: I know what you're saying. Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: I don't know if she goes the way of Top Gun Maverick where they didn't get the original girl to come back. You know what I'm saying?
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, she didn't want to come back, so. Yeah. And she. Yeah, she wasn't yet.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: But will she be it? I don't know. I don't know. Because again, Phoenix has always been the cheat code.
She can't be the cheat code here because this is the end of that FOX universe. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: But I'm saying if you're retconning Marsden in, then you could presumably bring back Jean Grey, not Phoenix.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: So I was just curious. I wouldn't be surprised if she was in it because we know there's other people coming, but. Yeah, that's the one that caught my eye. Okay, here's my. I'm gonna make a prediction.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: The actor on the chair who is most likely to have A bigger part than you would think because of what the actor has become since he last played the part. Sebastian Stant, even relative to Thunderbolts, where we know he's kind of a co lead, is going to be bigger in these two movies than you think.
Than you might think. Because Sebastian Stan has become a much bigger star since Endgame. He won a Golden Globe. He was nominated for an Oscar. Sebastian Stan is a prestige A list actor now. He is in demand as a lead. Disney every day kicking themselves that they didn't make him Luke Skywalker when they should have. Like, I'm just saying, I think that always tends to matter.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: In ensemble movies. I think he's going to have a bigger part. And they will in the rewrite somehow, some way. Maybe it's as an entry point to Steve, who knows? But Winter Soldier will have a bigger role within this cast than you would expect. That's my prediction. Because of Stan's notoriety as an actor.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: It's quite possible. It's quite possible. I never thought of that. I haven't. We, obviously we haven't gotten to see Thunderbolts yet, which is certainly a highly expected movie. There's been a lot of talk about it being really, really good, so.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Well, he looks like the co lead, right. It looks like him and Florence Pugh are like, that's the top pairing of that. That's what it looks like in the trailer to me. At least they're the top two in that movie.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: But I'm. I'm not even gonna guess, but I'm pretty sure the name that popped up and you was like, really? Yo.
Chad and Tatum.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: When I saw that name, I was like, really? Yo. That's all. That's all Ryan Reynolds pushing.
That's all that is how he do all of this? I have no idea.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Well, that's how you know that. Like, they didn't announce either Ryan or Hugh, but you obviously know they're in the movies. But by announcing Channing Tatum, you're kind of announcing those two without announcing them. That's how I reacted to that.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: It was like a way of being like the Reynolds influences right here. You just don't need to say his name in this list. Probably because honestly, Ryan Reynolds was probably like, I'm too big to be in this list. I gotta be my own entrance. Wouldn't surprise me. Would not surprise me.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: Like. And so yes, I, I completely agree.
And whatever. I, I would have been much more of, of that branch. I would have been much more excited. Not that he Won't be in it. But I would have much more excited had Snipes been on one of the chairs than Tatum.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: We'll get to that later.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Gonna be more Blade. He might be right.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Word up, man. Word up.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Any other names that you see was.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Like, okay, well, now I think you start to get to the category who wasn't there. Actually more than who was actually this.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Because we had talked about this some time ago in terms of what we like, who are you gonna get this guy, he's like 80 years old. Ian McKellen and Pat Stewart. What were your thoughts when. When they were introduced?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Well, inevitable. Much easier for Stuart because he can be in his chair, so. And, you know, I mean, McKellen. Yeah, look, I mean, they were gonna do it. I mean, I'm. I. They still got the voices, they still got the gravitas. Can they still pull off the helmet and, like, who knows? I don't happen to think their part really goes past this movie much.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Like, I kind of like this is to end them. Right. They're in this movie.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Character in that is done. Perhaps not Chad and Tatum. If Ryan Reynolds has anything to do with it, he probably continues. But I think that X Men Run is done. We're gonna see them put forth a good effort, but at the end of the day, it's over. And this is us. This is their swan song, I would say.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that. I think the point of having that roster there was to kind of let you know this is the final closure. And, like, anyone who wasn't mentioned is probably going to be in Secret Wars. So Halle Berry, like I said, you know, obviously Hugh Jackman, Ryan Reynolds, I think some of them will even be in this movie, but they're ending that. You know, this is one of the branch timelines that's going to be dispatched by doom. The other thing I thought of in back of my mind was, I think we're going to regret that Dr. Strange scene even more when we get through with this.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Which scene is that?
[00:23:09] Speaker B: The Illuminati scene.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Because it's like we've already seen Professor X get killed on screen.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Multiple. I mean, you know what I mean? He's died a few times. Yes.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, like, there's just another one. Yeah. I feel like some of these were kind of getting into the. Like, you're losing that impact because you keep doing it and like, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:29] Speaker A: Do. Are we going to care when it's done?
[00:23:32] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. Like, and that Scene because it didn't add enough to Doctor Strange 2. Ultimately, I'm going to be like, did you waste it? I think you can get away with the Last Stand one. Only because that movie is far enough in the past and people didn't like it. It didn't become memorable enough at the time to where, like, I think a lot of people will kind of gloss over that.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: One.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
But the doc strains two one. No, like, I think losing some of those characters, if we lose them again, will be problematic.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Do you think we're gonna get a better version of what we got in the Marvels with regards to Hank McCoy, Kelsey Grammer's beast? Are we gonna get like a better version of what he looks like?
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I hope it's actually gonna be him this time, not just like.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Cause he was dope. He's, to me, personifies beast. And his.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: The costume looks fine.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Huh?
[00:24:33] Speaker B: The costume looked fine 20 years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a CGI. His costume.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Like, but can he. I mean, is he like, can he move around? I mean, how old is he? You know, saying stunt guy in the.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: Costume can do it.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: I'm thinking that they're gonna improve upon what they did in that and go the route of the Thanos, the Hulk sort of situation to sort of make him look. We're gonna get a lot of x men 97 sort of look classic.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I completely agree. And I think, you know, Wolverine being in his classic suit at the end of Deadpool and Wolverine is kind of like a foreshadowing of. Of that. Yeah. But I don't think they're in the movie that much. Do you think their parts are huge? I don't.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: I don't know, man. I don't know.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: I think it's like one or two scenes, one set piece for Doom to kill them off and. And that's it. So we know there's others coming, right? So notables that were not announced. So no Young Avengers, thank God.
No Brie Larson.
Not sure if she's coming back. Oh, geez. Right? No Scarlet Johansson, no Jeremy Renner, no Chris Evans. But literally within 24 hours of that list coming out in that presentation, there was a rumor that Chris Evans is being added to Fantastic Po. And that's what officially got me onto the. Like, some of the chairs who are not in Doomsday might be on the set of Spider Man 4 and on the set of Fantastic Four, and that's the spreading out effect. It adds a little star power to all those projects. It weaves in the cameos to all those projects. And now you can splice in more narrative to where this is. You know, Fantastic Four is not going to be an Avengers movie. We know that. But it's going to clearly lay groundwork for what we see in some of those other movies and also probably set up a new direction for the MCU. So if Spider Man 4 is Avengers 5.5, these movies are all linked. And when I saw the Chris Evans thing, I was like, yeah, I get what you're doing. And it would not be surprised if we see more of that. And it's like, you know, Tom Holland's name wasn't on the Avengers Doomsday list. It's like, but maybe he's in fact, like, these people can show up anywhere. And I would not be shocked at this point. Point. So any, any thoughts from your side? Any reactions to, like, who wasn't there or who you like? Like, we know some of these people will be, but just anyone that you were surprised wasn't in the Doomsday list?
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Chris Evans, certainly, because he's a big, he's a, he's a big name. I, I, I revere his name more than I do rdj. To me, RDJ is like a second. Even though watching Iron Man 1, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, he's always, RDJ brings it. Obviously, I get, and I understand why they got him. I just don't get why they got him to God to play Doom. Again. I'm gonna say it again.
It would have been prac, it would have been easy for me to get if he, if Tony Stark came out and say, I had a life model decoy. I actually had a life model decoy. But he didn't want to play Tony Stark. He wanted to play something else. And again, if you listen to our previous show where we talk about RDJ and what he is supposed to be doing in this film, who is supposed to be, he's supposed to be tricking these people into believing that he is Tony Stark. And then he changes. Whatever. If this, if that's it. I don't know how well it works for this roster because some of these people, I mean, obviously Chris Hemsworth. It'll be interesting, Brian, because a lot of these characters may not know who Tony Stark is, especially the X Men side.
I don't know how Chris Hemsworth falls into this dilemma.
I see the connection with Loki.
I was surprised. I would say the surprise for me is not having Cumberbatch in there.
Okay, that's the surprise, I think, in thinking about it.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: And he. He said he's not in Doomsday. He said he's big in Secret wars, not in Doomsday, for what it's worth. And I actually don't think that might be total. I don't think that's necessarily total actor bs.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Because he said, like, I'm actually a major factor in Secret Wars. He's like, I'm just not part of Doomsday. I bet you he's in Spider Man 4 though, because he was in no Way Home. So I actually think that's a little bit of like, if you're looking for like, how is he talking out of both sides of his mouth? He's saying, I'm in Secret wars, not in Doomsday. But he's left open a blank there where I think he actually is in Spider Man 4.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: I'm pretty sure he's not caught up in the whole figuring out how all of this is going to work. He's just fed information. He just not quite sure of what's going on.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Well, they stayed away from certain movies entirely. Right. There's no Dr. Strange representation. Right. So if you said like Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch Wong, you know, all. None of those characters are on this list. They stayed away from the Captain Marvel verse. Right? So like, no Brie Larson, no Kamala Khan, no Teyona Paris. Right. So they kind of just didn't include it. Doesn't mean they're not in it. But maybe they're. Maybe again, maybe they're somewhere else. And then maybe they're only in Secret Wars. So they did definitely slice off entire movies worth, if you will, of people.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: I would do this, Brian. I would. I would. To get. I would get Brie Larson to come back, give a few million dollars. Because what's a few million dollars now, Right? Get her to come back and have Rogue take her power. She's put. She's in a coma. She's dead. Who knows? But that's how I would bring her in. Because Rogue needs to be Rogue.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying?
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Needs to be able to fly.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Having her steal Captain Marvel's powers, I think is a big, big thing. They. I think they have to do it to. For Rogue to be Rogue. Brian, it can't be her. Just her ability is just to take people's powers. Can't be just that. No, she has to be Rogue in terms of her abilities. Flight. And she gets it from somewhere, and it's from Captain Marvel. Who knows if they pay that off. But again, Doom. Doomsday is supposed to kill off the Fox universe, so perhaps they don't even do it in this film. Hopefully they do in the future.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: And with a window win for Marvel. I mean, we got to call it a win for Marvel. We can argue the merits of what's in it, but, like, they got people buzzing finally about this movie.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: The curiosity is there.
The curate. They built the curiosity. Bravo to the guy that thought of this who perhaps was in the room and people looking at him crazy because of how long this was and all the complaints. I'm pretty sure they read all the comments. Everybody hated this, but they got the numbers up and now is etched into everyone's mind.
So when this movie pops up, everybody's going to go see it. Regardless if the word of mouth is horrible, people are going to go see it.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: That might be the whole mantra of this end in the Multiverse saga. You hated it, but you had to see it. That's going to be the whole thing. Disney don't care. They don't care about. They're like, that's the thing. It'll validate everything we've complained about. It's like, they get your money and they get your money more than once and blah, blah, blah. It's like, you can hate it, but as long as you show up, you're.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Going to pay for it somehow.
So all of this brings us to.
I mean, we've talked about the Russos. We talked about the ingredients necessary to make this work because we haven't gotten enough cohesive storyline that gets us excited to see how this all ends.
So, yes, they decided to bring back the Russos. They brought back the team pretty much, yeah.
But given their latest endeavors outside of the mcu, they haven't been successful at all.
I mean, they've had some interesting participation in some projects, but them as directors, it hasn't worked out for them. And then we find out, and I was surprised when the names of Marcus and McFeely and only one of them is coming back. Correct. For this, right?
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: They were involved in Electric State, which was a $300 million movie for Netflix that. No, you know, if you go look at Rotten Tomatoes and you see what.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: We'Re talking about came and went, this.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: Caused us to say they can't be.
They have to be nervous about the prospects again. They gave us four amazing films. Can they do it again is the question. And Kevin Feige is a bit nervous about the quality of film because I don't think Kevin Feige just Wants a billion dollars at the box office or 2 billion. I don't think that's. That's cool if we get 3 billion. But he wants people to feel what they felt in Infinity War Endgame.
He wants the big moments. He wants to get the memes out there on Instagram or wherever on social media of people going crazy at some of the scenes that we saw in previous films.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Feige is nervous about the Russos. Your thoughts?
[00:34:20] Speaker B: So this story felt like a combination of no news and maybe news. No news part was like, Kevin's gonna be very hands on with Avengers 5 and 6. I'm like, well, duh. Like, but he wasn't hands on with Avengers 1, 2, 3, and 4.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Like, of course. Like, I don't care who's. I don't care who's directing this movie. Right, Nolan, Spielberg, Scorsese. It doesn't matter. Like, Kevin Feige will. Hands on with the crown jewel of the Marvel enterprise. That's not news.
The news embedded in this story, to me is this idea that, like, there's, like, an implication of, like, he doesn't. He didn't really want to bring them back. That's the. Like, is that what's really going on here? Because the article makes the scoops make it sound like he's skeptical that they can recapture the magic. He doesn't trust that they're the right directors for these projects, and that's why he's going to be all over them for these movies.
If that's the case, does that mean he was ordered to rehire them and this is not who he. And that all of this director reshuffling that went from Destin Cretton to the Russos and so forth, does that reflect a rift between sort of the Iger level and the Feige level? That, to me, is the, like, question within this story. Because the idea of, like, Kevin Feige being, you know, in the room and overseeing, like, that's not. He better be, of course. Like, yeah. So I don't know if, like, maybe I'm over reading into that, but just the way that it was put out, like, if he's the one who made the call and he's the one who asked him to come back, why would he then be like, I don't trust Hands off.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Why are you playing golf while they're doing their thing?
[00:36:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, so if he's the one who initiated this reunion, obviously it would be in part because he trusts them. So if he doesn't trust them, it implies that he didn't vote for their return to me or had to be talked into it or pushed into it.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: I think whomever he got into it, I mean, yes, whoever he would have gotten, he would have been involved in the creation of this. But the fact that he's nervous about the Russos doing it, it's telling and it's unlike for. For. For us.
Seeing what the Russos have done outside of the MCU brings, again, there's hope because of their connection to what they've done and their familiarity to what has transpired and perhaps their ability to grab those situations and create a compelling story. That's the hope that you're getting. People who are familiar with this. Right?
There is. There has to be worry. There has to be worry. I would be worried if I were Kevin Feige. I'm like, yo, I would be like. If I was cool with them, I'd be like, yo, what happened there, yo, what happened with Electric State? And I wouldn't be like, you know, like, in a confrontational sort of. But I'd be like, yo, what happened there, yo? Why was that whack?
Why did it need to be $300 million? Talk to me about that.
Because now we've given $400 million to do these films, to do one film, and then whatever else comes along with that for the next one is like, yeah, there's nervous is. And it's not nervous is that Russos can't do it.
I would say. I would think it's nervous is that we reach the finish line in terms of people actually wanting this.
For me, there's just curiosity as to all of this right now. Right there has. There's. You haven't built a compelling storyline that has me excited for this.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the key. Like, I gotta be honest, like, the Russos outside the mcu, the track record speaks for itself. I think the latest. The latest black eyes that Amazon is. Is throwing in the towel on the whole Citadel universe. Right? I mean, as they should. I mean, now they got full control of Bond. Who. Who needs. Who needs The Russo spending $300 million a season on. On Citadel? Supposedly we get one more season. That, by. That, by all accounts, is terrible. The first one wasn't that good, but now they got Bond, so they got. They got the real deal. But I think this whole.
The question that's circulating around all of this is kind of like the.
What really made the Infinity saga work to the degree that it did, and who deserves the most credit for that?
Like, I think that's really what we were asking because you kind of are like, we have some of the band back together, but we don't have all the band back together.
And to your point, how much of it is a sunk cost because the groundwork has failed? Like. Like, if this movie is disappointing, I'm not prepared to say it's solely going to be because of the Russos losing their way because they're being handed a pretty crappy deck. Like, let's be fair to them. Like, they're not coming in. You know, Winter soldier was in 2014, five years before endgame. And we've talked about it many times. Like, between them, between that movie and Guardians of the Galaxy, that is the true inflection in Marvel. That is the moment where Marvel goes from a nice, successful, wow, they pulled it off. Experiment to a global, unstoppable phenomena. But they're coming into the mess now. Like, this is a mess and they're being asked to fix it. If they're not successful in fixing it, it's not all on them.
It's not like. It's like there's been so many mistakes already made. But what I am interested to see is, for example, we know that, like, James Gunn script doctored every step of the way. He's not here. Who's to say if you just have one of Marcus and McFeely, but you don't have gun in the room at times. Maybe that's the secret sauce they. They miss, you know? Like, we don't know that for sure and there'll be no total way to tell. The other thing is like, Kevin today is not Kevin five or ten years ago. Like, part of the reason I'm sort of skeptical of this whole scoop is like, he is Mr. Nostalgia right now. He is Mr. Living in the Everything he's done is like, I'm trying to recapture the portal scene. I'm trying to recreate things I've already done. Recreate feels, recreate genre.
He seems to be as much a victim of his own success and stuck in his own past as anyone right now, at least from the outside.
So I don't know. You know? Yeah. Am I a little more concerned because the Russos didn't go on to have banner success? Yeah, maybe. But, like, I also just feel like the task is not all about them. They're not. Like, if I was to re. Like, what are the biggest reasons Avengers 5 and 6 will not be successful? I don't think Joe and Anthony Russo are in my top three.
I don't right Bad story up to now is number one by far like a failure to establish meaningful, compelling new Avengers. That's. Those are the two things.
And then the third is going to be kowtowing to Downey too much in a bad take on Victor Mondoom. To me, Those are the three reasons these movies will not work. The Russos, Marcus McFilley, like, even Kevin Feige's involvement. To me, like, that's not really the story. The story is really, really. They've missed on the first two things on that list. And we're nervous that what Downey's going to do is not going to be truly epic as a villain.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: Anything else, Brian?
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Well, I will say though, for all having said all that there will be a perception that Marvel is unsavorable, is too big to save if because people from the outside will say, well, you had Feige, you had the Russos, you had the writer, you had all these stars. And if the movie still stinks and people don't show up and the box office is Justice League level disappointing, I think people will say this IP is toast.
Like, I think people will say that for better or for worse, like it's had its day.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: I don't think people will say the IP is toast. People will say superhero genre is falling out of favor. We need to do other things. Whatever. He manned Ultron.
But I think other is the caretakers of this. They need to. They're done. They're correct.
[00:43:29] Speaker B: That's what I mean. The IP in the hands of Disney is, is over because this is the a. The perceived A team got back together and failed to generate next level excitement.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys. Obviously, for the most part, most people will seem to agree that the Avengers Doomsday roster announcement was a little bit overboard, but they accomplished what they needed to accomplish in terms of tattooing the Avengers Doomsday movie and whatever else comes after that into our brains.
And they've sort of let us know that there's more to come and we're going to sit here and wait to see. I mean, it's good for us because we got a lot to talk about.
But will it bring back the glory days?
That is the question.
People will be there that first weekend. I think that first week is gonna be crazy because people gonna want to see. Regardless of people saying this movie is whack, don't go see it now. I'm gonna go see it because I've invested too much time already and I need to see how this ends. Right.
So they accomplished that and bravo to them for, for this experiment that worked out well. I think it's is just a one time thing. Perhaps there'll be variations of this, but yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think about what's coming up next for Avengers, Doomsday, Secret wars and everything in between. Now until then, it doesn't look again, the curiosity is high.
Excitement is not there.
Excitement is. There's one dude to say I've never been more. Really? You've never been more excited?
You've never been more excited? You weren't excited for Endgame? I'm pretty sure you were. But your level of excitement is higher than that.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: There was. I once saw an interview with Larry Bird where a guy interviewed him and said this is one of the five greatest moments of my life. And you know, Bird, Bird just looked at and say, I think you need a better life.
That's what I think.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: I need. I think you need to pick up some, some hobbies or something like that.
But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think really about all of this. Is your excitement there? Is your excitement level anywhere near before Endgame, before Infinity War, before any other other movies that came out previously that you were excited for? Is this excitement level for the rest of the story that we're going to be shown? Is it there or higher? Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think and we'll see you next time on a Nerdgen Report.
