Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd J Report. I'm your host, Pablo. Joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, Daredevil, episode five and six.
Lots to sort of. I need to ask you this question because listening to other hosts from their own shows, people seem to think that episode five wasn't a filler.
To me, it felt like a filler episode. I liked the episode, but it was a filler episode. Yeah, there was some connections, obviously some tasks were assigned in order for them to pay off certain debts or whatever the case may be. But watching it reminded me of other things, obviously. But what did you think of episode five?
[00:00:52] Speaker B: I. With you? I thought it was a. I thought it was a fairly well made episode of television, but I think it made more sense to me in the context of their original conception of Daredevil, which was an 18 episode season. Much more like 80s or 90s, you know, television, like Star Trek. The next generation was 26, Smallville was 22. Like, it felt much more like the kind of thing you would see in a season like that where a day in the life of Matt Murdock, how he solves a problem without. Without the suit. Drop a few friendly faces in here to kind of keep things connected, but it's to kind of give us a break from the night and the darkness and. And the suit and all the other stuff. Problem is the way they've structured this show.
It wound up kind of being like yet another episode where he wasn't actually Daredevil, even though he felt like he was getting closer. So I don't love the placement as I've complained about how this show has been assembled repeatedly. But I didn't hate the. Like. If I just handed someone that one episode of TV and said, watch this. Were you entertained? I think most people would say, like, yeah, that was decent. That was. That was not the worst, you know, 45 minutes to an hour of my life. So. Didn't hate it. But I do feel like this show has been so uneven in its pacing that I didn't walk away from the episode feeling like it really helped the cause tremendously either.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I wasn't surprised, although I was sort of like, oh snap, here's this guy. Obviously I'm talking about Kamala's father. Every time he mentioned her name, it took me out a little bit. Like, come on guys, we know who this is. If you don't know enough of it should have been known with the showing of her funko pop.
Why does he have to keep Mentioning her name. When I'm talking about my kids, I don't talk about the name. People I don't know, you know, so it was just weird. Did you. When I saw it, it reminded me immediately of Inside man, the Denzel movie. Yeah. You didn't see that? I mean, there was some other filming that.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: You mean the. You mean the bank scene? Like the way the robbers were blocking the. The. The vault and like all that.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: The bank scene, safe deposit box, the outside of it, you know, opening the doors, letting. It was. It was Inside man for me. There was other Dog Day Afternoon, I believe, with Al Pacino that they were mentioning and stuff like that. But, you know, it was still Inside man for me.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: I like the reference. We need a little Albanian playing in the background.
We're Good. Yeah. The Ms. Marvel thing I found annoying, I gotta be honest. Like, so her dad, right, wound up being a little bit of a scene stealer in the Ms. Marvel show.
And this feels like one of those classic cases of he was really great in, you know, one to two minutes of screen time. And they're like, oh, people like that. So we're just gonna give you, Kamal's dad, every chance, like, other chances that we get. And I'm kind of like, I don't know that I needed this whole thing to be him. Which is also because probably I'm annoyed at the whole Young Avengers proposition, which, by the way, this show officially is adding to. Right. Because Angela Ayala, I'm assuming, is going to be on that roster someday. But yeah, I don't know that I needed the Ms. Marvel name drops just for the sake of like, oh, by the way, like, there's this other local hero you have to meet, and you guys share space and like, okay, we kind of know that. Like, you know, but. But their adventures don't necessarily have to coincide. Yeah.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: So I didn't love that part, I think, as usual, like, what I did like is I do like when Matt is sort of solving problems as using his senses, right. Like when he. That the vault pick he's done before, that trick was in the Netflix show. But I like that they brought it back. Like, that was. That's a. I like when he does stuff like that. So that part of the episode I actually enjoyed. And when he uses his disability to kind of out Fox, you know, the villains or bad guys who dismiss him, I like that stuff. So that part of the episode really did work. The fight at the end kind of didn't. Like, I get that they're trying to show that he's kind of, like, out of shape or sort of not in Daredevil shape, and therefore he's more vulnerable to the everyday dude. But I'm getting kind of tired of it already because I just know what it's supposed to look like. And so watching him in broad daylight struggling against the scaffolding with this, like, everyday hood is sort of. I don't know, I just was like, is it over yet? Can we get to the real stuff?
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, they keep emphasizing, without having to say it, that he's not in rare and not in peak form.
And showed in the next episode as well when he was fighting. Although we don't know the pedigree, I guess, of the Muse. But the fighting.
The fighting, to me is okay, but they're just regular fights almost.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: These should be guys that he wouldn't have a lot of trouble with.
Season one or two of Daredevil, he'd have dispensed with that guy in the alleyway in about five seconds.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: He fought the hand he had to figure out a way to beat them. I would assume he uses that ability with everybody. People shouldn't be able to. Should not be able to get the upper hand on him with regards to fighting because of his senses and knowing and sort of, you know, he's. He's had bigger foes, better foes, but they seem to be drilling the point of he's not in, you know, peak condition. He's not in top form.
And it still continues into the next.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Episode when you do the Netflix rewatch it. This started in season three, as I said, when he. Because post Defenders, when he sort of feels shaken and undeserving of being Daredevil anymore, he comes back in season three, even when he fights Bullseye, he's more limited. He's definitely more boxer. He can still use his senses, but not fully. And you could sort of see it. He's just more vulnerable, like, to the very end. Even when he beats Fisk in the. In. In that. In that hotel, he's not using the full arsenal the way he did in the season finale of season one. He's not.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: So, like, this is kind of like, almost de. Powered him further, which episode six may have been the first. Like, hey, now we're start. Now we've bottomed. Like, now maybe we're starting to recover to a place we're going to be. But I'm with you. Like, it's kind of been a minute since we Saw him do some of the signature, like, sense beyond senses and, like, flipping and using props and coming off walls and doing things that, like, normal people can't. It can't do. Even though he's not a superpower guy. Like, and I missed that because that's so essential to what this cat. What makes this character different than just, like, any other person going out in the night and looking for a fight.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
So with regards to episode five, is there anything else you want to sort of go over or. Because episode five for me was just pretty, like, it was a filler episode for me.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I mean, like I said, I think this is one of those where, like, if they had a real cohesive, well put together, 18 episode set, I think this actually would have been, like, a highlight. I really do. Like, I really feel like if this show was rolling along and they just wanted, like, hey, we need to give you a Matt Murdock contrast, but still show him as hero in helping everyday people, I think this episode actually would have been a real win. I just think our frustrations with it are like, how can you put filler when we've already been fed the mix of stuff we got in seasons one through four, and this is only nine episodes to get to the cliffhanger, whatever's gonna happen, that's what, like, is driving the frustration.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: We're getting the side by side sort of situation and something that we've been getting, I guess, for the. All of the season, really, with Fisk and Murdoch in terms of their journey to this rediscovering themselves and who they are and who they want to be, who they'd rather be. Right.
The thing with Luca, obviously, and correct me if I'm wrong, that heist was in order to pay the $1.8 million tax or.
Or fee for what happened in the docks or whatever, right? Luca doesn't want to pay this dude. It shows. He shows up at his office.
To me, the episode five, it shows a person who's like, if it's Luke, if Luke is the one sending out. Sending these guys out, right? To do this job, right? So that he could pay that. It doesn't happen.
He shows up at his office and really steps up to Wilson Fisk. I keep on saying in my head, carlton, Carlton Fisk. But Wilson Fisk, he's standing up to him.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Yo, if he didn't want to pay him, he didn't. He didn't have to put himself at risk by doing this heist and stuff like that. He didn't want to pay him from Jump street, from what I can tell. So to me, that heist was, I guess. I guess it was just simply to show Matt Murdock in a situation where he, like you said, helping everyday people. And, and, and. And I guess still continuing on that road to becoming who he, I guess, is meant to be or wants to be.
But it just shows that to me that. That. That heist was meaningless in that Luca wasn't trying to look and trying to pay Fisk.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: I think that whole sequence, to me, though, is like, again, this feels.
This feels like a moment where you appreciate it. If you saw the Netflix show and if you didn't, Disney's betting you kind of just get the point enough, which is that nobody's afraid of Fisk anymore. Because I think if you saw, like, season one in particular, where Wesley is the guy that shows up at all these meetings, right? But just the mere mention of my employer is enough to scare all these bad dudes in a room. And then you see this guy march right into Fisk's mayoral office and be like, nobody cares about you, man. Like, whatever. Like, you. You left that world behind. Like, that's the contrast. Again, I don't think if you didn't see season one, I'm not sure that you, like, feel that as much. But, you know, I thought if we're transitioning to episode six, like, similar to episode four, episode six feels like more like the real show.
And again, it's like, why is it coming in episode six? But it was, to me, a good episode. I like generally what we did in episode six or what we tried to do. I like the parallels. This show is definitely at its best when we just take the key characters and put them side by side and let us see the cut. That's where this show is sort of working for me. It's like when you see Matt and Fisk doing things and they quick cut between the two. It works when they show Matt and Castle together. Like, that works.
Honestly, like, everyone else is dragging this show right now. Like, everyone. I mean, everyone else except for Hector. Hector Ayala. But obviously, as we said, that's. That's come and gone. But like, I gotta be honest, like, the. The lawyer he works with, the therapist, like the cop, like Bibi. Like, nobody. Nobody for me, is really adding much at this point. This show only moves in my mind. This show, like, like, just propels when it's the principal characters side by side, the principal characters on a journey. Even if it's like, parallel, that's when this show does work, everything else, to me, I'm struggling.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: How much of this parallel are you willing to sort of consume? Daredevil, fighting the muse and all that. And this dude just picking. Bullying this dude and just, you know, giving him an ax. Him having fun, but certainly going back to who he was and what he needs to. In. In terms to get out the frustration that he feels because he can't beat up these elites. Right. He can't impose his will or his will the way he wants to. He has to do it to Adam, unfortunately. Does he kill Adam at the end of this, or. No?
[00:13:42] Speaker B: No, no. Because people believe the thing. They can't. He can't cross the Vanessa line. See, that.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: That.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: That's the twisted nature of this. Right? He knows part of what makes this work. And I want to. Your question. Go back to your question in a second. Is that Wilson Fisk does have a code. It's twisted and it's evil, but he does have a code. And Vanessa is the one person in his code that, like, can give him quasi orders. And so it's like, I can kingpin out of this, but I can't quite do that. Now, my guess is he will at some point because he's the villain and the villains do cross lines, but for now, like, that's the guardrails. Vanessa said don't kill him, so he's going to do everything but kill this guy.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: And the show will show you that in the same way that ironically, that's kind of Matt. Part of Matt's code, too, right, Is you're not supposed to kill. See, I think that's part of what they're trying to show. There's this weird, like, twisted parallel between the two of them. Here's my question for you. Could this show have worked if it was nothing but that? I'm just. I'm not saying it would have. I'm just asking the question if they had. Because we're looking for structure, right? We're kind of looking at this show and saying, like, it's sort of like an octopus. There's a lot of different pieces to it because we know it was made multiple times, and we're searching for, like, the show within the show that could have been what we really wanted. Because I feel like with episode four, like, pieces of, like, the conversation in episode one, like, episode six, like, we're starting to get a few more things where, like, all right, like, there's some ingredients in the kitchen, right? We might be able to make something here. Might be. Not be able to save this show and make it classic, but there's stuff in here. So that's one. What if this show had been almost like a 24 style formatted show where like you're literally seeing the side by side path of Matt and Fisk and then flashing back and flashing forward and it's leading to this inevitable collision. And that's all the show was structurally.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Wasn't that.
I mean, season three pretty much.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: I'm saying. But not. But yes, but I'm saying to make it formally like a time stamp. Like, you know, you are living the same day side by side with these two guys and then they flash back and you're living five. You're living three months ago when they're trying to do it clean side by side. Every. Every chronology is exactly the same between these two characters until call it the season one finale when they finally come head to head. And then you don't do that format again in season two.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Would that have gotten really old? Like. I guess. I don't know.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: I mean, again, I.
I'm getting sort of. I'm getting over it. The side by side cut backs between both of them.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Okay, so you're already tired of it. Interesting.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I'm tired of the. Like Matt is doing. I want to stay with what Matt's doing with whatever. With whomever he's doing. I want to stay with that until. Until we reach a point where it resolves or whatever continues, whatever.
Instead of going to back and forth.
Because I get already what they're trying to do. Right. We get it. They're turning. I don't need necessarily that too much to side by side. I want to follow them.
I want to follow Matt Murdock's journey and as well follow fist is journey, but not at the same time.
That's my sort of.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not arguing for. I'm just asking because I think I. I did enjoy it again in six. I actually did enjoy seeing the side by side anger, but also seeing that there's this feeling that both characters are home in this weird way. Right. Fisk is home when he's headbutting a guy to a pulp. Right. Matt is weirdly home when he's in the darkness fighting another guy, but also kind of saving a life. Right. He needs both. Right. That's the one thing. Right. Matt needs to save Angela because that's his code and that leads him to do some things that he probably shouldn't have in that fight. He Lets Muse get away, which we can discuss later whether that was well executed or not. But, like, I get the point. I get. I get what they're trying to do. So I didn't mind that in the same way that I didn't mind it in episode four when you kind of get the Fisk marching past, you know, Rabbit in a snowstorm with the bloodstain on it to the basement, and Matt starting train on the roof. Like, I don't. I guess I don't hate that. But to your point, Rocky movies only did that for 10 minutes, right? It was a training montage. Then you see fighters do their thing, you get excited. Then they bring them together, they fight. They don't do it for. They don't do it for 10 hours. So that's why I asked the question.
But again, I feel like episode six felt like maybe it should have been episode two or three, but I'm like, okay, so now we're getting into the show that maybe should have been. I'm interested in, but I'm like, is it too late? What are we doing?
Muse feels shoehorned into season one. I know he's coming back for season two, but like, we're so deep into season one that I'm kind of like, I want to be more in that world of the. Of like the mystery of him, why he's doing what he's doing, solving that, beating him. And to be sort of dropped into a fight in episode six where we really don't have a lot of context for Muse yet, felt off to me. And then I want to ask you whether you feel like they did Muse dirty from a comics perspective because he seems like he doesn't have any of his comics powers or abilities.
His sort of counter mat abilities he doesn't seem to have. So what. How are you feeling about that? As it was sort of added to in this episode?
[00:19:24] Speaker A: I'd like. Yes. To explore who Muses is and why he's doing what he's doing. Obviously there is a reason he's doing what he's doing and you know, and it's interesting.
But as far as him, his reasoning, what happened to him?
Like, if there's an episode where we see what happens to him, then it makes sense to me or it makes his character more interesting.
Right now, to me, it looks like Matt is fighting a dude who's a little bit out of it and he's doing these things and he apparently can fight, obviously, right?
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:09] Speaker A: Like Muse hasn't encountered. He's not encountering dudes that can fight all the time.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: One would think not.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Yes.
And yet he can handle Daredevil. Now you can sort of say, oh, again, Daredevil is not in. When is this dude gonna get top? When is he gonna be at top? Physical condition, Right? When is he gonna get his mojo back?
That's what I'm. You know, when is he gonna get that? Because I'm not with, like. Like, he's fighting one dude. He's having trouble with one guy and he's had trouble and he's fought two guys.
I guess they're setting up the instance where he's going to be fighting multiple guys in with regards to cops, right? That perhaps going to come with. How's he going to handle that? Obviously he's going to win, but how good is he going to be? Is he going to be classic Daredevil or is he going to have. Obviously going to have some struggle? But how they pull that off is going to be interesting.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: I think it's a real question in the sense of in a grounded show, he can't just get it all back. That also would be a failure, like, if he showed up randomly and, like, the opposition was tougher. And then suddenly he is doing the flips and doing everything. I'm like, wait a minute now, why weren't you doing that like, 20 minutes ago? So there has to be a catalyst and then a human path whereby he can redevelop that. This is one of the things that a Netflix show, I thought they did a really nice job of, right? Because he starts at a really elevated place, like, he's a good fighter right from the very beginning. But the introduction of Nobu and the hand ninja forces him to train and attune his fighting differently, right? He has to start to listen for the weapons, start to listen for the heartbeat, start to listen for the exhales. Like, use different techniques. So then, like, it's not just like he snaps his fingers and he has more in the tank. Like, he gets the crap kicked out of him by Nobu. He should be dead like the first time, except for the luck where he lights him on fire and. But by the time he fights him again over seasons one and two, like, he. You can see, like he's adding more things to what he can do. And then obviously he realizes, look, I actually need a suit, right? That's the other thing he realized. Like, I can't just do this in my. In my under armors, right? I gotta. I gotta actually get something to help me. And then Melvin Potter Gives him the stick, too. So, like, you see this progression, which makes sense in reality of, like, Matt is getting better, stronger, faster, learning to use his senses, and then he's acquiring some equipment. Like, this show has to preserve that. If we're bringing him back from nothing.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: If he just is, I don't think.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: That this is not going to work. Like, he just is. Like, one day, he's just Matt Murdock. Daredevil all in again. That cannot be. It can't just be rooftop training at night for a little bit.
Like, he's got to get his. He's got to get his ass kicked. Like, really? Like, that's why when I saw, like, you were saying Muse could fight, and I was like, I was disappointed Muse didn't have his powers because Muse had this, like, absorption of the senses thing, because that would have forced Matt to be like, I can't just. I can't just wrap up and brawl with this guy. Like, I have to outfit, think and out fight this guy. And, like, that's why I was kind of like, oh, really? This guy's just gonna be, like, a pretty good fighter. And that's it.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: He's. They're making it seem like every foe is the same, sort of in terms of skill wise, there's no real threat other than him facing whoever he's facing. And we don't know. It's not like Rocky 3. We know what club of Lang brings. Like, oh, snap, he's gonna fight this dude. And Mickey's even telling him, yo, he'll knock you into tomorrow, Rock.
But everybody that Daredevil faces is just a regular dude to me in terms of their fighting skills and their abilities.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: So when he fights people is like, he's fighting just different people, and all of them give him trouble. There's no real emphasis on his skill and what makes him dope.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Totally agree. I mean, I think it has to change. We know that. So we know Bullseye is coming back. Right. So we do know there's a guy with metal in his body who eventually will kind of, I assume, pose that kind of a challenge. I'm just saying, if this is all Muse can do in a fight, then as a villain, how you use him changes in my mind.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: See what I'm saying? Like, if he had all his powers, then I'm like, okay, they can go head to head in a room. And, like, this is a real thing. I want to see if all he can do is box and do a little bit of martial arts. Then I'm Like, I don't really need to see a lot of head to heads between these guys. He's got to be doing something El with another villain to really make his work more meaningful.
So I'm with you. But we know Bullseye is coming, so hopefully it causes him to. But again, we need to see Matt broken physically. I think, like, right now, we're kind of seeing, like, angry Matt getting it back. And I'm sort of like, to your point, we need the Rocky 3 moment. We need him to be like. Or the Dark Knight Rises or the. The Bane moment. Like, we need him to go out thinking he is Daredevil and finding out he's not right. And that's kind of if that's the catalyst for the rediscovery of his faith, which we did get a little religious mentioned in. In this episode, which was good to see if that forces him to, you know, recall some of Stick's training or redo things or relearn. Great. Like, that can be good for this show. But I'm just. To your point, I'm just nervous because this show really has it. We're a long way in for not having turned the fight stuff loose. And if they think episode one was, hey, we gave you that, they're wrong. They're wrong.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Even at that point, he was, what, a year out, a year from being Daredevil. Like, he had stopped being Daredevil for a while. And even Foggy was like, I'm not trying to give you a reason, you know, so there has been time that has passed where he hasn't been Daredevil yet. He's capable of fighting Bullseye.
Somebody who is. Has a unique talent. Right. What did you think of the cgi? Him running? See, I'm telling you, man, this Daredevil, this is like, yo, give me that money, yo. Yeah, you spending millions of dollars to show a CGI of a character that yo, he.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: I listened to a podcast with Charlie Cox where he talked about how they use the CGI in the season. I thought it was the answer was interesting. And I was like, I don't know if Charlie Cox actually gets it. I gotta be on this one point. He does a great job obviously, enacting the part, but he was actually talking about the Episode one fight with Bullseye, and he was talking about one specific shot where he said, on the roof. You know, we've got Wilson Bethel, the actor, in the front, and he's like, we have Daredevil kind of come out of the fog of nowhere, and he lands in a hero of pose on the building. And he's like. He's like. And so he's like, I can't actually do that.
And so we use CGI to replace me. And he's like, it's just the kind of thing that, like, on Netflix, we couldn't do. Although Ted Saran is. Would say that was Marvel's fault, not his.
And so he's like. That's where he's like, we're hoping to use CGI to add to sort of the heroism of the character. But I would. To your point, I would say it hasn't actually, on balance, added to the heroism of the character. This. Thus, this season, like, it's probably been a loss, like, overall. And I find myself, even when I think about that, that pose. I would rather trade that pose for the next gen of the hallway fight any day for Matt Murdock. I don't need the Batman. Like, I don't need the swoop in out of nowhere with the cape and look super cool. Like, I prefer the guy who's, like, out of breath, leaning against the wall, but willing himself to fight. You know, to take on three more guys like that, to me, is more true. And that doesn't require cgi. So I kind of was like, it sort of implied that Charlie Cox is in the room participating in how that part of it's being put together. And I'm kind of like, I'm not convinced. I'm almost fearful you're losing the essence of what make. Made your character great, what made your portrayal of the character great. So, yeah.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we've seen a lot of videos of dudes running.
Regular people running on rooftops and doing these crazy. I think that there's this term for that.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Oh, is there? We Tom Cruise literally break his ankle jumping from roof to roof. And they kept that take in the movie. It looks great.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Right? You can string up somebody and practice that pose to jump on. There's things you can do, but then you want to cop out with money. Make it look fake. Because that's what it looks like.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: It looks fake. Physics are off. Yep.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: And so that rooftop scene when he's. Because he says effort and he turns the devil in and you see him running across and like, yo, this doesn't look.
I don't know what. You're not getting me excited with this.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: No.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Spider Man. Yes. Okay, yes, Spider Man. But Daredevil. Regular muscles, regular bone structure, regular human being. His senses is what keeps him. And his ability to. The acrobatic ability of him, you know what I'm saying? They're not showing that. Instead they're giving us some CGI stuff that doesn't really look good, but whatever.
We don't know anything. Anything else. Brian, for the show so far, I.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Don'T think these were too bad episodes. I mean, I thought these were two pretty good. Very different, but like pretty well made episodes. Probably some of the more consistent work the show has done. My themes are always going to be about structure. This is definitely feeling like one of those. We're going to get to the end of episode nine, maybe even episode 18, and we're going to sit there and look at the board and be like.
Similar to some of our past discussions about things like Eternals or whatever. Like they're. It's in here. Like what we want is in here, but what we got is just been clouded by bad cgi, bad editing, questionable.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: You know, structural questionable decisions as to how. What the order of this.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. That's what it feels. And I just. I. But I. I don't want to kill these two episodes and I don't want to kill the show. This is not a bad show. Yeah, it's just a frustrating show right now that has now a few more good elements to it.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Interesting. We. And we have now only three episodes left.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: And we still haven't gotten. I was. I was hoping to see Bullseye, but we're getting him perhaps in episode seven or eight, maybe.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: I mean, the actor has said he has some really sadistic work to do in this season that we had, so I assume that we haven't seen that yet, but. And I assume we get Frank back at some point. Yeah, I assume we get Karen back at some point.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Again, like we've said, the show isn't bad, but there are some things that we can't instantly put a stamp on it like we've done with the first three seasons of. Except for the second half of season two for Daredevil. That stamp of approval as to how great the show is and the characters are in this one. Like you said earlier, the other characters around aren't really contributing a lot.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: I don't think so.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Gadolphini's. What's his first name?
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Blake. Daniel Blake. Yeah. I agree. He's the exception.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, he is.
I. I get the connection Wilson Fisk has to him and what they're trying to show us there. Like the only person that has been able to sort of make him feel a certain way, I guess, decent. Make him feel like a decent Human being.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Is possibly.
Or calm him down and make him, you know, approachable, I guess, is Vanessa by his side or whatever, you know, and then Daniel, who shows admiration, genuine admiration, and he recognizes it because he has never felt it before, directed in his way. So there is obviously a soft spot for him because of his adoration and hearing the things like, you know, I believe in you and all this other stuff. Right. He doesn't hear that from nobody. Right. Other than perhaps Vanessa and now this younger kid, that perhaps he looks at him as a sort of some sort of son figure, you know what I'm saying? So that's interesting to me. I want to see the turn we've seen. We're seeing some of that with him recruiting his, I guess, gang of police officers to do a certain task that he's created for them to do. I'm looking to see him be not necessarily Kingpin, but obviously we're going to get to that. But perhaps, yeah, even Kingpin, to be the one sitting. When he sits on that chair as mayor, obviously seen glimpses of it, but we haven't seen him fully as Kingpin and making certain requests and not caring about procedures or red tape and all this stuff. He is.
He's gonna. He's gonna impose his will not necessarily. Not to his. Perhaps to his staff, but to everybody else who has sort of diminished his importance in that. That. That. That position that he holds.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Well, I wonder if they're gonna revisit a more twisted, darker version of the Netflix season one reveal where Fisk steps into the light as kind of this wealthy Good Samaritan, Right. And sort of, he. He manages to win the court of public opinion for what he's doing in rebuilding Hell's Kitchen, and he uses that as a front for what he's actually trying to do. I'm assuming we're getting to a point where he's going to use the entire mayoral apparatus as a front for what he really intends to do, which is kind of the show we always wanted to see. Right. Again, it's like, are we going to get that in season two and see instead of season one? But, yeah, that's the more interesting. Fisk is the Fisk who's, you know, and the Fisk in the comics as mayor who's using the arm of the law and the arm of politics to, you know, come to carry out his schemes. And even in season three, he subverts the FBI to basically become his payroll. You know, they didn't even realize it until they had done it. Right. So my point is Fisk. This is Fisk has to do this. He has to use the system itself as his henchmen. And hopefully we're getting back to that point. I will say, though, so since you brought it and I've said it a few times, I'm just going to rip this off side by side. I want people to think about this. So in the Netflix show, you're supporting roster at various points, right? So you have Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, Ben Urich, you have Elektra, you have Stick, you have Claire Temple, you have Detective Mahoney, you have Melvin Potter, Frank Castle, technically.
And then you have don't forget, what's his name, Agent Ray Nadeem in season three. So that's your. Like, some say, take that roster and then put the one from this season. Right? So you go like Heather Glenn McDuffie, BB Angie Kim. Who's the. The cop that he uses now? Cherry. That's. I think that's the guy's. Guy's name. Daniel Blake, the chief of staff.
Oh, I forgot Vanessa in the Netflix. In the Netflix show where she was used in that show versus Vanessa in this show. Like, see, that's not. Man, that's not competitive. Like, that's not even like in the same league.
And that's. To me, I think that's part of why this show is dragging as well, because there's something about the Netflix show, even when things slowed down, when it's those characters who are in the scene, you just. You're still paying attention.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: With these characters, I'm kind of like, can they get off the screen so I can get back to Charlie cox and Vincent D'Onofrio and John Bernthal and those guys like that. Yeah. I should add Muse to this, this, this, this season's list. But he hasn't. The character hasn't really talked or done much yet. So this is my point. That is a very wide gap in quality.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: This is unfortunately one of those things that these guys have made a decision into thinking that these other characters don't matter. Let's just develop them and put them there as pieces, but not necessarily give us any. Give us emphasis on how, how these characters affect the entirety of the show and the situations that are happening.
I do have to say I like. Although she. She made a mistake in trying to. Whatever. The Ayala's daughter. Is it her?
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah, no, you're right. I forgot the Ayala family. So Hector was obviously very good. But yeah, the actors playing Angela Ayala is not bad either. That you know, as far as Young Avengers go, this is not the worst intro we've had, but even if we're not looking forward to the concept, and I do think we're getting White Tiger sooner than we think, because I'm assuming what happened to her with Muse will be one of the catalysts that pushes her to actually take over Train, to take over the amulet and take over her father's mantle.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll probably cut this out, but John Campion, man, I was listening to him, and he was like. He said he. Obviously, she's not annoying.
He said she was not. She's getting. Becoming a little bit annoying. I don't think she's becoming known. She just lost her father. Nobody's doing anything about it. She has a right to feel the way she feels. And she knows who her father was.
But he just mentioned. He just called it, like, you know, she's a good. He just. The way he just says diminishes her ability. And this is in terms of an actress and stuff. It was upsetting to me. And he does that to certain situations.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Which is my thing is about structure. See, to me, this is why I think it would have been more effective had they started the show with Season 4. Our entry point to the Ayala family would have been her and not her dad. And I think it would have actually been more powerful to have this kid who's crossing paths with Daredevil, and you're sitting there being like, what brought them together? And then, you know, they referenced in episode four, her father being dead. So you're like, as a comics fan, you're like, oh, I know that original White Tiger's dead. And then if through her flashback, you actually get Hector and her relationship to Hector, I think that would have been more effective in setting her up as White Tiger. Whereas I think what Camp is talking about is a little bit. And what people, if they're getting annoyed, it's a little bit that. It's not like we got the dad first, so he came out of the gates hot. The actor passes, and now she's kind of picking up the pieces, and it's like, it's not her fault. But I do think there's a little bit of that that's not helping her as much. It's still in that same box. Right. It's like, this show is not bad. It's not classic. We're getting better pieces as we go along. But the, like, you know, the main courses that we really need for this show, we still haven't had and we need to have some of that in the next three episodes.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: Would you say this is on the same sort of MO of Marvel's Disney plus shows?
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Well, I think Loki is. I think Loki is the gold standard show.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And Wanda and WandaVision.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: I think WandaVision is the second best show. Very clearly that has aged better than we thought.
I think Secret Invasion is the bottom.
Like, I think that's. No, see, I think Secret Invasion is worse. Yeah, I really do. I really do. I think Secret Invasion was insultingly bad.
Like she Hulk was ill conceived, but never. Almost like never had a chance. Like she Hulk never had a chance is what I was.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: Secret Invasion was like waiting for that.
[00:40:34] Speaker B: Secret Invasion. Secret Invasion is the De Niro, right?
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: Seahawk is like, we. We knew that was.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: We know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Low, low ceiling on that one.
This is better than that for sure. I feel like this is more nestling in maybe like the Falcon and Winter Soldier camp of like, there are moments and scenes in the show and the charisma of the leads is such where you're like, I remember why I love these things. But then it's just very. It just winds up being uneven and you look back on it and you're kind of like, it was. It was a missed opportunity. That's what it feels like this is going to. And when you see that, by the way, when you see the set photos for season two of Daredevil, which is shooting right now, it has awakened my fear that this entire first nine episodes is basically like a preamble, like a pre show. Because I don't know if you've seen. He's in like one of the classic suits in season two. He's finally in the black suit with the double D logo chest, which a lot of people have waited for. And there's a part of me that's like in the Disney world. Is that suit meant to signify real Daredevil? Real Daredevil has arrived. And if that's the case, we're not getting him until season two, which is kind of like, what are we doing here? Like, it almost feels like you should have just made like 12 episodes of one good season as opposed to trying to hack and cut and mix up all this footage from all the other stu. I don't know. That's my fear when I saw the set photos.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of what you guys thought of Daredevil episode five and six.
You've heard our thoughts.
Good. Some good things. About it, but still the same sort of issues that we've sort of talked about with regards to the show and then in the season and where these characters are. And some if you haven't seen the first three seasons of Daredevil, which I think I, I think I read, the viewership for those seasons has risen.
But if you haven't, go see those. But if you have it, it's hard for you to understand where we're coming from in terms of how good the show could be.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's gonna make you, like, this season less. I will warn you, if you do that. It will. Yeah, it'll make you more frustrated.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let us know in the comment section below what you guys think. Remember to hit that like and subscribe button, and we'll see you next time on the Nerdgen Report.
