Green Lantern & 80s Nostalgia: Is Hollywood Getting It Right?

[00:00:05] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nurja Report. I'm your host, Pablo. And joining me, as always, is Mister Brian Schultz. Brian, they confirmed what we already believe should have happened. Brian. They perhaps made all the arguments they could in terms of how they can make this happen, and understanding that they needed positive news. They needed an opportunity to get this guy now. And I heard that the Stefan read really well for the part. But ultimately, I believe the decision to get Aaron Pierre was due in part to also opportunity that he's hot right now and that he's just. They see the star potential in this guy. Not that Stefan doesn't have it, because he's been in Jesse Owens. He's done a couple of other things as well. But it came down to him reading with. With Chandler as well, because they both Readdez and they made the obvious decision. Brian. So now that we have this, I guess the two big pieces, right, we'll probably start getting more announcements of other characters. And when I say characters, I mean just regular people that are going to be a part of this series to see how this starts to build out. And when does this start filming? [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we give it a date, but I would assume it's film. It's definitely gonna be filming in 2025. And as for a release in 2026, that would be my expectation. [00:01:56] Speaker A: So. Brian. The expectations are ridiculously high. Brian, because of all that's involved. Where now Brian does Green Lantern obviously has the potential to be a series unlike we've seen before with the comic book genre. Brian, we can certainly speculate on the quality of story that will be told based on the individuals involved with this project. Right, Brian? So the bar is up there, and we haven't even seen a frame yet. Your thoughts on the latest on this project? [00:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah, look, let's get into it, because we had not just. We had the air and Pierre news, but we've had some other news recently around this show. And every data point to me so far is just raising my expectation and raising my perceived ceiling for this show to where I think it's valid to have a discussion in light of how well the penguin has been received and how well it seems to have been executed as to whether lanterns can reach that Game of Thrones phenomenon level, which we haven't. To your point, in comic book genre, superheroes genre, we have not had a show really do that. We've had a film, obviously, the MCU on its run to endgame. There was a stretch in there where I think we got there, but on a television side, even as good as something as Loki, Washington, it still was pretty contained. Like, I think there's plenty of corners of the world where we didn't talk about, people didn't talk about Loki and weren't aware of it, as good as it was. But something like Game of Thrones, even if you didn't watch it religiously, everyone got caught up in it. It became a global phenomenon. Based on these books and based on the viewer response over the first six seasons, I realize that sounds like hyperbole, but everything about the show indicates they're going for it. And I think they have the building blocks to, you know, make an attempt. So let's rewind. First, Aaron Pierre news confirmed to play Jon Stewart shouts to us, by the way. [00:04:18] Speaker A: Who did this as a wrestler? Like, it was it Bob back? And he used to do this to himself. Somebody used to do that to themselves. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Well, I also think it's, in sports parlance, this is something that Jim Rome used to do in his radio show where he'd be like, he'd take a segment where he's like, I need to give myself more credit. I haven't given myself enough credit lately. So we have not given ourselves enough credit on this because the second we saw Rebel Ridge, we did a show, we cranked it out. We told you that Aaron Pierre should be Jon Stewart, so that's number one. So you can find that show. It's actually gotten some nice viewership in the past week. Number two, though, we gave you Stefan James. He was on my list of three. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:56] Speaker B: So we gave you both the guys that actually wound up reading for the part in the end. So we had your Jon Stewart all along. I think the key, though, is that they both read opposite Kyle Chandler. And I think when you're doing a show like this, you can have two incredibly talented actors individually who there's just a little something different when they're opposite the co lead that has to be the backbone of this show. And so I would suspect the article suggested that both James and Pierre had their fans inside of WB. It suggests that it was not a sort of, like, unilateral, unanimous, immediate decision, which kind of tells me you're splitting hairs a little bit. But I think the tiebreaker has to be, how are they opposite Chandler? And I would suspect that Pierre just might have been a little bit more. As I said, I still think in that rebel Ridge, he has such chemistry, even though it's contentious chemistry with Don Johnson that I feel like that would serve him well in this show. And so I feel like maybe some of that might have. Might have broken the tie. Interesting. I don't know if it matters, but neither one of these guys is american. I don't think it matters. But, like, obviously, Jon Stewart's a us serviceman in the comics, and so you have Pierre, who is british, and James, who was canadian, obviously, I don't think anyone looked at Henry Cavill and was like, he can't be Superman because he's british. But I just thought it was something of note. So we got that cast. I think it sets up perfectly, as we've talked about previously, in terms of what they want, what James Gunn wants to do with the universe. We said, aaron Pierre is 30 years old, six foot three. His star is on the rise. But he's not, you know, he isn't Denzel now. [00:06:51] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Right? So there is Runway where this role can help get him toward what we think would be bigger things. Incidentally, you also brought up another one. His voice is going to be pretty famous in a couple of months, if it isn't already, because he's playing who? [00:07:06] Speaker A: Mufasa? [00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah, he's playing Mufasa and Lion King. [00:07:08] Speaker A: So you know what I said to my wife? Cause she and I were talking about it. Um. Cause she every once in a while takes a chance to listen to our show. Uh, and I said to her, he's if, like, if you believe in reincarnation, he's like, the second coming of, uh, James Earl Jones right now to me. [00:07:31] Speaker B: He certainly has some of that inflection in his voice. I mean, they could not have probably found a better young mufasa, which is a, obviously, James Earl Jones was the original and the Lion King, and recently. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Surprised if they ever do a movie about him and he plays him. Go ahead. [00:07:47] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. He just passed away, by the way, so last year. So it's exactly what they wanted. Young John in the lead, sort of older mentor. Hal, I guess I'll throw it back to you. Like, now that we have the two, we know it's the two. Like, what do you want from these two guys? Like, forget the rest of the show. What do you want from just your lanterns on screen. [00:08:13] Speaker A: As far as chemistry? [00:08:15] Speaker B: Chemistry. You know, what the characters are asked to do in this show, I think, is also a key question, like, what do you know, what archetypes or what style of filmmaking or landing do you want to see on screen? [00:08:30] Speaker A: I mean, if we're looking at material to reference, I would think if he's playing Jon Stewart, the one to reference would be the one from, you know, if I'm, if I, if I didn't read the comics, the Justice League unlimited one. Right. I would expect something similar to Rebel Ridge. I don't think we're ever gonna get a rebel rich to anything like that. I don't think so. Cuz this guy is, he's out of here. So we probably get somebody else as a series, whatever happens. So I expect that sort of character that he plays similar to Rebel Ridge. An instructor, a commander, you know, an expert in whatever it is he's doing. And he has that sergeant mentality, military mentality in terms of his approach and how he speaks to people. Right. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Chandler, I would suspect we get something similar to how he's played other roles before too. A bit arrogant, a bit funny, you know, wise cracking sort of dude, you know, but still chill in, under whatever situation, Hal Jordan is sort of his commander, sort of, you know, I don't know, seniority, whatever, right. And he has to sort of, that dynamic will have to, will be interesting because he's a military guy. He's a sergeant. Whatever he did. What is his title in military? Is he just a sergeant? [00:10:04] Speaker B: I thought he was a sergeant. I'll look it up while you're. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Okay. So if he's a. He's that role. He has that role, but he has to now listen to Hal Jordan as his, uh, commander was, so to speak. Right. He has to because he's the one, he's, he's perhaps learning the ropes, maybe. I don't know how long he's been a Green Lantern, but still I expect to see a little bit of 48 hours. Nick Nolte. [00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we use, yeah. [00:10:33] Speaker A: So that to me, this, you know, regardless of what they'll look like in the suits, I don't suppose we'll see that anytime soon in the series. But how they play off each other will be certainly the make or break for me. [00:10:55] Speaker B: So here's a question. Do you think they both have the ring and are both part of the Green Lantern Corps already at the start of the show? Or do you think Hal presumably has to be if he's older? Do you think this is in part an origin of Jon Stewart as Lantern, given he's the young, the young Lee? [00:11:17] Speaker A: I wouldn't mind that. I wouldn't mind that if that were to be the case, because essentially you're building this would be perfect, the perfect opportunity to, to start that and have him in these other films that you. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Plan on doing because that would offer they could, because it is. Again, it's a tv show, so you have room and you have time to do this. You can start with Stewart as a Marine if you want. I mean, he was in the Marine Corps. I just checked. He was a sergeant. Okay. That was correct. So you could start with him as a sergeant in the Marine Corps. You could have some of the opening scenes. He's still part of that. And somehow he kind of gets intertwined with this integral or this sort of interplanetary mystery that we're going on, and that brings him into contact with Hal. But you could start there. You made the point about Pierre's performance in Rebel Ridge. He is a little more fully formed. So in the sense of he has a superior officer, or he kind of has a mentality of, like, he does have a superior court officer who he leans on in the course of that movie, but I think he's a little more fully formed than he will be in lanterns. I expect in lanterns, he'd be a little more impetuous, a little more apt to do his. Do his own thing versus what Hal tells him to do, which kind of creates the tension. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:33] Speaker B: So whereas in Rebel Ridge, like, his combat skills were refined, his. His sort of. His tactics were sophisticated. I don't think he's necessarily going to have all of that in the context of show I had posited. We had started have this discussion previously. I don't. I was. At first, I was kind of so disappointed this was earthbound. But as this has gone on and we've seen the casting, I'm so interested in the casting now. I'm kind of like, how much do I actually want to see the rings at work? Like, how much do I want to see the suits early in this show? And I'm not sure. I got to be honest, I'm not sure. Like, they have to come out at some point. Like, I don't think you can go a whole season without. I wouldn't pull a daredevil Netflix season one where, like, he doesn't get the costume until the very end just because this is, like, a power. It's not like a human made suit. But I don't know that I need a Hal and John, you know, dressed to the nines in their suits, using their rings to create all these crazy objects in a huge set piece with some alien villain in episode one, either. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had this similar thought that, you know, we don't necessarily need to see them in their suits anytime soon in the series, perhaps later on if need be. But I think that's why the Hulk, the incredible Hulk show works so well because he only showed up for those few moments. Right. And in this, it can't be about that. It'll be, we'll see some cool stuff in terms of how they use it, if they already have it. And if they don't have it, why they don't have it is interesting. Perhaps only Hal has it, right? [00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Like maybe only Hal can fly. Maybe John can't. Like you don't. Like, you know, they could have stuff. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a lot of interesting ways they can go about this and make it interesting and not goofy. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, again, it's like you presume that how has been off world a lot. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:48] Speaker B: John has not. Right. So there's all sorts of that. Like, you know how it's funny. They've used the true detective analogy throughout, in part because I think that was an HBO show. But I feel like as we're getting closer to this, I also think there's an X Files parallel here in the sense of, if you think back to that show way back in the day, it was like David Duchovny's character was the believer. Right. And Scully's character is the non believer. And I think that applies here. It's like Hal's the believer. He's part of the core. He's been wherever, intergalactically. It's a good soldier. He lives in the present and the reality, and he's like, I don't. Mars, whatever planet, whatever sector. What are you talking about? So there's that interplay. It also led me to, and I'll ask you this question. I do not believe there's going to be a single lead villain to this series. I'm putting that out there. I don't believe there will be one. To me, the X Files was like a mystery of the week. Didn't have that sort of interconnectedness, but the mystery was the villain, the mystery was the objective, and I think that's the case here. I'm not looking for a comics grand villain, certainly not like Parallax or anything like that, to be part of this show. I think it's much more about exploration, and any sort of bigger villain is going to be more of a tease for what James Gunn wants to do with it down the road. What do you think about that? That we won't get a casting of like a big name actor as a foil for these two guys? [00:16:18] Speaker A: I don't necessarily think we'll have that, what you're describing. I think we'll have those individuals who are certainly keeping secrets and have to sort of protect those secrets, and then, you know, we look at them as possibly antagonist, so to speak. But, yeah, I don't see. I think this is leading towards a rendition of Hyperclan. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. But that's to my X Files analogy. Right. Every week it would be like they had their freak of the week or they had some. A criminal they were chasing. Right. But that, it wasn't like, it wasn't a Lex Luthor. It wasn't constantly up against, you know? Exactly. I feel like these are threads that might lead to a future Justice League villain, or maybe it leads to, like, the anti life equation down the road, like something like that. But, yeah, I don't think the show needs it. I think it's really about these two guys. Like, on these, of course, on this mission, this detective mission, we did get some other news, all of it good. So they've got James Hawes, who was the director of a number of the episodes of slow horses, which I would argue is one of the best shows on television. He is doing the. The pilot, and he's doing the first two episodes of season one. I think, for the Penguin, that's worked really well. They got Craig Zubel, who had done a lot of really high profile stuff in tv, and that show has looked great out of the gate. So same approach here. Also a late casting news. We didn't talk about this one. Her supporting role, first supporting role that apparently is being announced. Not that you would know her, but Kelly McDonald is apparently going to be playing like, a police officer, sheriff, some kind of supporting role that's a regular in this series. She is also an Emmy Award winner. She's a scottish actress, but won an Emmy award, has been nominated for a BAFTA. So it was in trainspotting, if you're a fan of trainspotting, the movie did do a little work in Harry Potter, was in Boardwalk Empire. [00:18:14] Speaker A: Boardwalk Empire. That's why I know her from. Yes, yes, yes. [00:18:17] Speaker B: Another actress with some hardware on her mantelpiece. That's. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:23] Speaker B: So. And this is not a. I don't believe that she's playing a comics character. She's playing like a human character and around these people. But it goes to sparing no expense to make this thing, you know, as high end as possible. [00:18:40] Speaker A: A lot of good things, Brian, coming out of Green Lantern, we can only hope. And I think we'll get an interesting series, Brian, that will sort of set the bar for how you do comic book series, I think going forward, and I said this in the past years before, when Disney had the opportunity to build from series to theater, where you could consistently get billions of dollars every time you put out a movie because you've built that series, that's dope. Like imagine man, Penguin and what Penguin will do for the Batman. Two, are you kidding me? There's your example that I spoke about years ago. So I think Green Lantern will definitely be the template as Penguin has already set the example of what needs to be done to these shows so that we're interested in further exploration of these ip and how they do this. [00:20:05] Speaker B: But this goes to my lead, right? What I said, if you look at the penguin doing the numbers that it's doing on HBO, which they were smart enough to convert it from Max to Sunday night primetime, that show is already in the top three or four of anything they've put out over the last, you know, five to six years. It's up there with all the Emmy award winning shows. And I'm sure Farrell will get nominated, if nothing else, for this. But I would submit, you know, Green Lantern and let alone probably the two most famous Green Lanterns are higher profile leads. These are the, in my opinion, these are the highest profile lead characters we've had in a comic book television show. Unless you're going back to the good old days, the Adam West Batman, until the Bill Bixby incredible Hulk, when they did use the frontline characters in the, you know, tv shows, unless you're going back, or Linda Carter as Wonder Woman, unless you're going back to those days. We haven't had, like, the tv shows we've gotten have all been the peripheral characters, right? The supporting characters, the people who are lower in notoriety. And that even includes feral Penguin. Like, he got this show because he stole it, honestly, in the Batman and he earned it. But to me, this is frontline. They're putting frontline heroes in a tv show. And to your point, looking to build towards something bigger. We have begged Marvel to do this with, I mean, for example, like the Wolverine anthology. We've begged them to do this, and we're still hoping they do do it as we get into the mutant verse. But they've been far more reluctant to use their mainline name characters in lead roles in tv shows. And I'm fascinated to say, like, if penguins, a top three or four show of the last five or six years, why can't this, if it is really good and matches the talent of everyone involved, why can't this be Game of Thrones level? Why can't it take off to where people like, I have to know what these guys are up to every single week that this show is on. And how does that not help the universe? How does that not get you excited someday for if they can get to the Justice League, that you get to see Aaron Pierre on the big screen alongside David Corn sweat and alongside whoever you, Allen Richard, whoever needs someday. [00:22:31] Speaker A: We have to discuss Alan Richard at some point because I feel like the season four announcement, even though we haven't gotten a season three, I think may disqualify him from getting the role of Batman Bryant, because of the physical demands that he would undertake to sort of. Because some people say he's too big. [00:22:53] Speaker B: But we'll get, we'll get to that call Christian Bale. It's doable. It's all good. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Yeah, man. He'll, he'll. He'll take you to his garden of apples. Yeah, man. So let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of the Green Lantern news that we've got in the confirmations, the new announcements of other cast members and. Cause, listen, the people involved in this show are certainly high profile and do good stuff. So James Gunn is putting together a team, an all star team, to give us hopefully what sets off the new strategy on how to do things. [00:23:44] Speaker B: I'll leave on a prediction. If this show is as good as we think it is and it comes out and it does huge numbers, I predict that paradise lost, they will alter it and introduce Wonder Woman in the show. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Based on what we've already said regarding putting headliners in tv series and the success of doing so, that Paradise Lost, because there's really nobody, just characters just building on lore and giving us a lot of exposition, that Wonder Woman will now be introduced because it's what's working and it can work. And if you want this to work, we have to have, these characters already have a fan base so that when we go to the movies, there is this abundance of people wanting to see what happens with this storyline that is all somewhat interconnected. [00:24:46] Speaker B: 100%. And I think the timing is important, right. Because if this show comes out in 2026, and I'm going to submit by 2026, I'm going to take a wild guess that Penguin season two will happen. They will give feral the money. And they're looking at the numbers right now, how much interest this has increased in the Batman and everything around this. And they're going to say, we want season two to lead into the Batman part two. I'm going to take a stab at maybe we get that put into place. Which means you could have Penguin season two and lanterns coming in 2026, and then the Batman part two comes in the fall of that year. I think those things could all have a halo effect in terms of profitability, viewership, box office, what have you. Paradise Lost is probably not coming till 2027 or 2028. You're also at that point, Supergirl has already come out, so you're not upstaging her by doing this. And I think they're going to be looking at that and saying, wait, we might have a template here. We might have a template for a number of heroes. And people actually get, there's actually more eyeballs getting on it this way than there are doing it just right to the big screen. And they've got, like I said, they have a themyscira show. That's the thing, is, they're working on it. They've just started writing it. James Gunn confirmed it's still happening, but it's a slow burn. It's not like they're like, if they were already at the starting blocks, fine, then it would happen as it is. But they're so early in the process, I think they're going to build this show out. Landers comes out, blows up, and is a massive show and is starting to get awards attention, all sort of stuff. I think that question is going to be asked of, we have this themyscira show. It's a good template. You know what is missing the lead. It's missing the new Wonder Woman. And why don't we introduce her here and launch her into the big screen as well? [00:26:44] Speaker A: Because I don't want that same sort of intro that we got in dawn of justice. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to have that same feel. I want to know. Even though we knew. Cause we already saw her movie, but there was an actress attached to it that people already sort of knew and seen her work and were wondering, but with this, again, having seen the penguin and what perhaps Green Lanterns will be, we would hope they will recognize the pattern and sort of build again, Brian, towards that big event when the Justice League does arrive on screen. [00:27:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. And to me, like, one of the things that I think tv would allow you to do in this case that I think would be interesting, since they're setting it in Themyscira and they're telling you, this is a themyscira show, make it more mythological. Like, why can't we? Why can't Diana be in the show but, like, have the storylines be about fighting Aries? Like, have the storylines fight not Aries as we saw him in the movie, but like, yeah, yeah, you know, have the gods be a part of the show and make it more like, hey, I'm looking at an ancient greek mythology show. It just happens to have the Amazons and Wonder Woman at the center of it. And I'm not even worried yet about her having the lasso and the bracelets and the red and blue, like, that's down the road. That's for the big screen. Save that for the big screen. But have her in the show. Have her be the lead of the show and be like, this is what they were doing before the world discovered. Themyscirae I think it works. I mean, you can do it. You can't do that in a movie because in a movie it has to be like five minutes because you got to get to, you know, Wonder Woman. But in tv, you could do a season like that and just have it be, you know, sword and sandals, but just involving these characters. But have her in it. I think if you have her in it, it totally changes the trajectory of the show and I think it can really help the character because I think it's really going to help Aaron Pierre. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of that idea. Uh, Brian, anything else in the DC world that you want to discuss before we move on? [00:28:51] Speaker B: Well, it's just a little one. James Gunn teasers coming. He let, he let it slip on. Someone asked him about are we going to see it like this fall? I think was someone asked him about this fall and he gave the thinking man's emoji. So I think we're getting it. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Getting a window, like in the next couple of weeks. [00:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah, like soon. Soon. That would be for him to respond to it to me indicates it is done. Yeah, he's kind of saying like, I've got it. Like, it's here, Brian, we got it. [00:29:22] Speaker A: We gotta, we gotta do this. We gotta try to not watch it and give a real reaction to this trailer because we've been waiting for this. Right. And then we go into our discussion about what we saw. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Yep. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Let us know in the conversation below what you guys think of that idea. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Aaron Pierre is land is Green lantern. Big freaking deal. The other big freaking deal had nothing to do with Marvel or DC, but we got to talk about it. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Henry Cavill, man, we called it. How long ago? [00:29:57] Speaker B: Give it up. We hit this shuffle again like a. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Month ago, and they're not announcing who he is, but is obvious to us. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's a second character he could be, but let's get into that. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Which would be who? [00:30:13] Speaker B: Well, let's do it with the con. Let's talk about. No, let's talk about the obvious. Then we'll talk about the less obvious one. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:18] Speaker B: I think it's a possibility. So go ahead. We. It's official. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Henry Cavill is in Voltron, and I. Either somebody's listening to our show or. Brian, the fact that there are other intelligent life forms out there thinking the same thing. Brian. So shout outs to you guys who made this happen, because it's the only obvious thing I think you can do. If Brian. If we think he's going to be Prince Lotor, but you're saying that he may be someone else. [00:30:59] Speaker B: So, number one, I think we got to give a little shout out to Amazon here. [00:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:04] Speaker B: Because I don't think it's a coincidence that Henry Cavill gets to do the Warhammer show for Amazon and then an Amazon backed Voltron movie gets him as a lead role. To me, that smells very much of a. We're working together here. You. We give you something. You give us. [00:31:20] Speaker A: Give us something. Yeah. [00:31:21] Speaker B: And I think Amazon probably went to his agent and said, as we said, they want to go young kids, younger Voltron force, as we got from the Daniel Quinn toy announcement, lesser knowns. That's great. But we need an anchor, somebody other than just Voltron itself to get people to talk. And so this is the guy in house, effectively, that can really do that. They don't say the character, obviously. Prince Lotor is just like, I mean, the Witcher basically is Prince Lotor. [00:31:53] Speaker A: That's why I changed the thumbnail. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Just like everyone's gonna see that parallel immediately, I think. Cavill also, even if we didn't have the Witcher role, if you watch the original cartoon, so much of Lotor's personality, Cavill's voice, his look, you can just see the translation all throughout. Such a natural version brought to life. And I'm excited because even though it was a cartoon in the eighties, Lotor is a fun villain. Like, he gets to do a lot. He has a lot of lines, is the kind of thing that you could expand in a movie format to make the character legitimately interesting. He's interested in Allura. Like, there's all these things that make him more than just sort of, I don't know, Cobra commander or something like a little more. One note. [00:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Was he often his character? Sort of. I would use the comparison of, let's say, Star wars, meaning he was in that gray area sometimes. Yeah. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Like, he would be trouble with Zarkon. Remember, Zarkon would come down on him for things he would do. He wasn't unilaterally evil. He had his. [00:33:03] Speaker A: That's what made him interesting. Yes. [00:33:05] Speaker B: A little bit of Starscream Megatron, where he, like, kind of wanted to do his own thing and, like, screw over Zarkon at points. And so that's what I mean, like this. I hope it's Cavill who's doing this, because I think the character is the most interesting character, really, honestly, like, in the show, like, in the movie, I really do think you can make it that way. The only other one I could see him playing if they wanted him on the hero side would be Shiro, which came in a later version of Voltron. But if so, Shiro was, like, grown up. That's why I bring it up. Cause, like, the young vulture, he was the leader of the Vulture. He basically sort of almost supplanted the guy with the collar in a later version, and he was sort of an adult character who was the leader of these five young pilots. That would be the other role that technically he would be cut out for. I just think it would leave some of his acting talent on the table to not have him do Lotor and b channel more of the quasi villainy that he even shows or the two sidedness that he shows in the Witcher and channel more of that into a Voltron role. And so I'd be a little bit more disappointed if it turns out to be that. But blow towards, to me, is the one that makes sense, and I think it's the goal. I think it's the role that is gold for him if he does. [00:34:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting, Brian. Let's see if they make that connection that he needs to be low toward because of that complexity that he has and him trying to romance. You want to see him trying to romance Prince Ariel? Yo, that would be like, dope. To see if he could do it, you know? [00:34:43] Speaker B: So, by the way, I would also say I just put out that would mean that Allura has to be a little bit older than Daniel Quintoy. That'd be uncomfortable. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. [00:34:53] Speaker B: It's funny. The show never draws her as that, but it is sort of inferred she is more mature than the boy, than the boys in the. You know, we would have to wait. [00:35:01] Speaker A: And see Brian to see. [00:35:02] Speaker B: It's like Savannah was older, right? Savannah older. She seemed a little older. And then, like, pidge, Keith were younger. Hunk seemed. At least he acted younger. I don't know. So, like, we'll see where they go with, like, this. This crew. [00:35:17] Speaker A: We'll know when. Once. Once they cast Princess Allure, we'll know what that is all about. [00:35:24] Speaker B: Well, the funny thing is. Okay, so you brought this up. Previously, the argument for him not doing Lotor would be Henry Cavill says, this is too much like the witcher. I don't want to have two roles where I've got white hair, I'm wielding some kind of sword, and I'm playing someone who's in the gray area. That would be like, I could see him as an actor saying that because you sometimes get that from the cast. It's funny. You brought up Freya Allen as somebody you wanted as Allura. Freya Allen, of course, is Siri in the witcher. So if they did it, it would be a reunion of two actors who have done this dance in some form already. So just for what it's worth. [00:36:10] Speaker A: So, I mean, I would. If it was lotor, I would tell him, you're not going to be playing elector witcher. You're not going to be quiet or grunting all the time. You're going to be more of a charming yet, you know, not evil, but certainly ruthless when you need to be. You'll play that, that gray line, but you wouldn't play it similarly to him. You will be a lot more. You will have a little bit more fun with it. [00:36:38] Speaker B: You know, I still think Cavill has been unutilized in Hollywood as that. I think there's a, you know, other than man from uncle, I honestly don't think people have trusted him enough with his vocal talent. And this is a role where Lotor talks a lot. Like in the cartoon, he would be. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, that would be the pitch. Yeah. Let us know in the conversation below what you guys think of that portrayal of Prince Lotor. Or would you, do you think hero is a possibility as well? And does it really not take advantage of the possibility of him playing Prince Lotor and what he can bring to that character? Because nobody knows Shiro, I think. I mean, I don't know him. I'm more OG Voltron, right? Yeah. [00:37:27] Speaker B: That's the thing. You and I are, that. I'm just saying that is a new version that has some notoriety. Like, I think in that version, if I remember right, if I think in that version, like, pidge is a girl boy, but like I said, they're younger. That's the only thing that got me wondering, because they cast a pretty young actor, as presumably. See, they didn't say Daniel Quinn toys role either. I'm assuming he's Keith based on the visual. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Maybe he's pinch. Who knows? They put him in some hair, I don't know, as the lead. [00:37:54] Speaker B: They said he's the lead. [00:37:55] Speaker A: He's the leader. [00:37:57] Speaker B: I mean, Keith has to be the leader of the. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:00] Speaker B: Force, though. So I assume he's Keith. [00:38:02] Speaker A: But let's see, man, is it. Let's see. Let's see. We're getting it. Certainly we don't want garbage, but you got to make this fun for us, man. At least don't. Don't, don't, don't soup. Don't street fighter us. [00:38:19] Speaker B: No, I'm, you know, Henry Cavill needs a big win, and I appreciate that he's going to try this for us. I'm excited. Yeah. [00:38:28] Speaker A: What else, Brian? What's next? You want to talk about some marvel now? [00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah, we can do some marvel stuff. [00:38:35] Speaker A: Fantastic Four, Brian. No other heroes. I would guess, Brian, that this means that they really obviously want us to focus on them and nothing else, which is fine. I mean, we sort of gotten that in the description of what this movie is going to be, where it's going to be, where it's taking place. So we sort of knew that. I guess them placing the emphasis on it to me really doesn't. I guess they want to just assure people who don't know that there are no other heroes in this world. It's just a fantastic four. Your thoughts on this announcement? [00:39:26] Speaker B: Well, so my tin foil hat immediately went on when I saw this. So let me give you the quote first from Matt Shakman, because this is confirmation. The great thing about this is we are building a new universe where there are no other heroes. It's just the Fantastic Four. End quote. Then he also added, by the way, for the movie, they're drawing on the inspiration of the actual space race, which took place in the 1960s, where this movie is set. And he said, so first steps is, quote, partly to do with that idea about exploration. So I think it's a good decision. Number one, we talked about this movie being potentially too cluttered and rushed because of the Galactus surfer inclusion. I still worry about that. But I also think it is notable where he describes it as we're building a new universe. Because I have said before, I thought that this alternate world would become the forum that is the new MCU when they blow this thing up at the end of secret wars and start over. And I think this quote looks an awful lot like a blank slate to me, where the first family are the first heroes in what is going to be this enormous palette of new Captain America and new Thor and new iron, all that stuff down the road. I kind of read the comment that way. Do you hear any of that when he says it that way? [00:41:00] Speaker A: Now that you, that you sort of say it? I do, and it makes sense because this is what secret war, the world after secret wars is going to be, is going to be a clean slate. Is going to be not here, is going to be in this other place, in this new world that we can sort of, it won't be too reality based, Brian, and it's going to be in this MCU now that that's different. But still, we'll get to see characters and things that happen that comes perhaps straight out of the comics, who knows? Whatever. But it'll be interesting because the hope it'll be different from what we've been already getting, and it sets up the opportunity for new stuff, new relationships, and I hope something better, right? [00:41:55] Speaker B: Yes, but I think it's conspicuous. I mean, I think it's what, like, as we know, these decisions do not get. There's no Todd Phillips Joker. Two thing going on here. Matt Shackman is not making that decision independent of Kevin Feige. Like, they're in the room. I think it helps fantastic Four because they need that family to work. They need that group of characters to overcome the dead weight of the two prior incarnations on big screen. So they have to give them that stage to themselves. But I just think it's, you're in the 1960s. You're in this era, which we're clearly not going to spend our entire new universe in the 1960s. So it gives them a chance to say, like, before we got to whatever modern Avengers storylines we're getting down the road, there was this world that just had these people. So I don't, again, I just think that's too convenient to be total coincidence. There's also a little nugget that got dropped, not totally confirmed, but being reported is that Mister Downey will be in the credit scene for first steps. But that's the linkage, right? So if you're doing the thing of, like, how do we get from 616 and secret wars to a blank slate? It has to be through Doom, right? I mean, whatever machinations are in Avengers five and six have to be paving the way for the universe being destroyed and redone and reset. And the idea of Robert Downey maybe making his first on screen appearance in a credit scene of this movie is probably a bridge to that. But anyway, I know you're shaking your head already, but that, that came out that he would sort of show up in this. [00:43:33] Speaker A: But me shaking my head is in reference to what I'm thinking about is the future of Doom, the future after this, Secret wars. What does. It's like we're starting off on the wrong foot. I just feel like with Doom. [00:43:53] Speaker B: Well, that goes back to our prior discussion, but I will say, in fairness to what they're trying to do, we know that Fantastic Four is in secret wars to these, these characters are in there. So you have, my point is you have to, you have to figure out a way for that to make sense. And Doom is the only vehicle. It doesn't make sense for, like, Tom Holland, Spider man, to pop up in this movie, right. In any capacity, time traveling or otherwise. Like, it just doesn't. So, like, Doom is the only character that has to bring them toward the 616 secret wars battle. And then likewise, we'll see maybe if that Robert Downey Doom gets wiped out, it then leaves the void whereby a true Victor von Doom in this new universe can sort of ultimately arise. I don't know, but I wasn't shocked, I would say, when I saw that. I think it's also like they know this movie has to work, right? And so having, having the tease of Downey at the back end is a little way to kind of get people a little more interested. [00:44:49] Speaker A: It'll be interesting how they do it. [00:44:51] Speaker B: I think that scene is really important, though, because if he, if he's not in the mask, or if he's in the mask and he talks, it's almost going to be like its own trailer for what kind of doom we're getting. And I feel like in those, that little snippet, we might form a lot of judgment. [00:45:13] Speaker A: I hope that in the Fantastic Four movie, we get some scenes where there's, you see this fly flying around and they're swatting when everyone's in the blue. And the end credit scene is a visual of the fly in the room flying around and doom watching it, because that's what he be doing. You know, that's how he gets his intel. But why listen to me? Anyway, uh, so let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of, um, that idea of the Fantastic Four in that world, there there be no other heroes. I mean, we sort of suspected that we didn't think there would. There would be. And the fact that, you know, they're making some comments of, of this being the case that this is the future of MCU 2.0, I would say. So let's start off with armor was Brian, let's just put it out, put it out of his misery. Young right. It's like, what's the point of keeping us guessing to, towards something that we know is not going to happen and shouldn't happen because that is just, I'm sorry, a waste of time and resources. I'll say resources. I won't say money, I'll say resources. And don't do, and don't not do it because you're afraid of some sort of backlash. Because we don't, I would say, I don't care. Let this be. If you want to get us back, if you, if you are afraid of that, announce Blade, announce the future of Black Panther and wait and do something. Brian, your thoughts on this whole armor wars and what's going on with that? [00:47:23] Speaker B: I think you hit on one of the elephants in the room, which is that if they were to cancel blade and cancel armor wars in close proximity, there'll be some Zaslav memes going up around Kevin Feige. [00:47:34] Speaker A: I think it'll be like. [00:47:39] Speaker B: So I think that's, you know, I think it's a consideration. Let's, let's, let's not, let's not dance around that idea that, like, they do talk about that stuff. But I agree with, look, I agree with you. You, at the end of the day, the primary driver should be the health of the projects and the prospects for what you're putting out. And like, worst thing, the worst thing you can do, and I, and I say this especially with regards to representation, the worst thing you can do is put out half baked, poor quality stuff where you've given the representation a lot of chide in the lead role. That doesn't do that any service at all. And I feel like if they can't figure out armor wars and they can't figure out blade, then delay, shelve them. It's not like you're not going to do blade. We know you're going to do it at some point. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:48:33] Speaker B: You just don't have to do it with Maher Sali if you're not ready now. Armor wars, I just don't know that needs to happen. And don she know, doesn't seem to think it's going to happen either or. It seems very uncertain. Let me give you his two quotes here, because if you know, star speak, stars usually are positive stuff that's in the pipeline. They'll usually say, yeah, you know, it's. We're still working on it. Like what? You know, we're excited about it. There's always some buzzwords about, like, working on the script right now, like, you know, it's in motion. Cheeto. I don't know. I'm not sure where anything is right now. I think things are going through a lot of changes. We'll see what happens. We'll see what it is. That's pretty unsure. And then they asked him about being a scroll, which tied into this still, this project. He said it wasn't a demand, it was a request. Meaning from marble, what do you think about playing this? And it was to set up stuff in the following thing, I think, meaning armor wars. So if the following thing happens and all those things were set up, then that's one thing. But if, as you said, it doesn't happen, then we can just talk about how I feel about it after, end quote. He doesn't. That's not a high probability. It happens. That's a pretty uncertain star who actually legitimately believe is in the darkest. Cause. I think he could not answer that question in a more positive way if he knew something was going on. [00:49:54] Speaker A: If you think about how Don Cheadle got the role as James Rhodey. James, look it up. It was a phone call, and he had to make a decision right now. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Well, it was also, Terrence Howard wanted more than this. Are you willing to take this? [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. But it was a decision that they didn't give him time to really think about it. I mean, he had to think about it, like, immediately. You know, whatever he was doing, he had to think about it at that moment. But it's the same situation now. He won't know till they've already spoken, and it'll be a phone call. He could be wet doing whatever. Yeah, it's not happening, and that'll be it. But. [00:50:45] Speaker B: There'S no. I can't figure out a path for this to make sense. And that's. It didn't make sense as a tv show because there wasn't a lot of buzz. I don't think we were surprised that they kind of struggled with that, but it doesn't make any sense as a movie we're talking about right now. Marvel losing the kind of money they're losing on some of these projects. We're talking about budgets being cut. How is a $150 million budgeted armor wars movie the best use of those resources relative to what else they could be spending on? I just, I don't see the argument where that has to be a priority project. [00:51:20] Speaker A: Let me ask you this. Do you think of Thunderbolts cap four? Unless they're doing something to tie it in. But are these movies or these projects that will not mean anything if they're not connected towards what secret wars or doomsday is supposed to bring to us? Do they fall in the bucket of dark Phoenix? Because again, we're starting all over. So it doesn't matter if these movies do what it do and it's not connected towards anything, what does it matter of these movies? Because already we are having our concerns with Cat four. We're already having our concerns with thunderbolts. At the end of the day, what do these movies bring towards to the table when it comes to Avengers and what they're trying to do there? Because again, we're starting over. So does do these movies mean anything? [00:52:21] Speaker B: I think it's a little different between the two projects. So thunderbolts, I think kind of, yes. I think Thunder, to our point about armor wars going from tv show to film, I still think they might have gotten the format wrong for thunderbolts. And I'll ride for that until I see the movie. But I could definitely see that project coming and going under the auspices. And I think the analogy is less so dark Phoenix, you know, the analogy is the DC movies. It's the Flash. It's Aquaman two. It's these lame duck films where everyone knew they were lame duck films because of the new leadership, nobody showed up. Now, granted, you could say they weren't good. They weren't good movies, and that would be a fair critique. But we have the same concerns quality wise about these projects not being that great given what Marvel's given us. So if they're of comparable quality to the Flash, which technically was, I believe, fresh on rotten tomatoes, I think it was like 60% or something like that. Not that that's everything. But, yeah, I could see this thing just coming and going with a whimper and nobody caring. I don't know if it'd be like Joker too bad in terms of box office, but I could see it being Marvel's bad in terms of box office or quantum mania bad in terms of box office. So, yeah, I think for thunderbolts in particular, that's definitely a concern for cap. I feel a little differently. See, to me, I think Captain America will always matter as a character to me. And I think Captain America had the goodwill as a franchise built up over the Chris Evans movies. I think the issue here is much more about what they're choosing to put in that movie than it is the fact that it. That Anthony Mackie might not be capped beyond secret wars. I think it's just more. It's not really doesn't seem like it seems less and less like a Captain America movie. Every. Every update that I think is more the flaw there. And I think it's like, I always use the analogy. It's like if you made Winter Soldier and you had no universe to connect it to, I don't think it matters. Like, the movie would come out or be screened for critics. They'd be like, holy crap, this movie is awesome, start to finish, and people will go see it to have a good time at the movies, and they wouldn't care if those characters weren't leading to endgame down the road. I just don't think either of these movies is good enough to command that. And I do think, to your point, if they're less than stellar, the falloff in box office will be more severe because audiences kind of have a sense that all of this is getting wrapped up and restarted in a couple of. [00:54:51] Speaker A: Years anyway, before we move on to Spidey Four. That's why I think about, like, what are they trying to do with World War Hulk? I know that's a tough thing to say, world War Hulk, but why are they taking us there? To give us something? Brian like, I'd rather wait for after Secret Wars Brian to do that story, redo it the right way. I don't care if you're retelling the story, but do it the right way. Do World War Hulk the right way. Brian. That's what I care about, why we're doing it from a premise that really didn't evolve that way. Brian they're forcing it. Brian. [00:55:34] Speaker B: Well, I don't think they understand or know what to do with the Hulk as a character. And I think you're kind of seeing that up on screen right now because you've seen the multiple iterations of the Ruffalo Hulk, which led to, you know, the bane of your existence. Professor Hulk. We've seen, you know, she Hulk. We've seen the sun. Like, it's just they're kind of flailing about in Hulk land. And, you know, I think part of it, too, is, I'll be curious to, when I thought about this world War Hulk thing is, how are they doing. Because there was the rights issue with universal law making Hulk movies. So, like, is the idea that if you do World War Hulk, you can do it because it's not a solo Hulk movie. Like, it's Hulks everywhere. Does that get them around the, like, we can't make a Bruce Banner Hulk lead film, which is what Ruffalo always said was legally impossible. Yeah, but look, both Hulk and the incredible Hulk, which I don't think is that bad. The second one didn't make much money. That's the problem. Like, so I don't think they have a template for, like, what really is big box office for this character on screen. So they're kind of just throwing, you know, now, like, we're getting, if we're getting Amadeus cho, like, we're getting another incarnation of the Hulk and we've got red Hulk. And, you know, I'm sure gray Hulk is out. Like, it's just, I'm sure they're all out there or abomination is back. Right. Blonsky's back. So I don't know. It just. [00:56:52] Speaker A: That would be something for after secret Wars. I would consider nothing now because, you know, you know, you will add up. Anyway, Brian, before we move on to Spidey for, I just wanted to make a comment. During our DC conversation, there was. There was something I wanted to mention because Zaslav is screaming why. This is. Zaslav is screaming more Batman. Right. Why doesn't Pattinson become the new DCU? That's been a topic of conversation. That's been something that's been talked about. Right. I'd imagine that this is the way Zaslav sees it, him not knowing anything about what's going on. He's saying, why don't. He's the one that's thinking about it. Like, why don't we use this one? And he doesn't understand the intricacies of why nothing. That's why he wants always considering or has probably said that. And people have run with it. I think hopefully somebody's talking him down because that consideration right there of bringing Pattinson into this DCU does not make sense at all. [00:58:02] Speaker B: So the report was, David Zaslav is the one who went to James Gunn and said, why don't we just make. Robert Pattinson threw up his hand. [00:58:09] Speaker A: I said, what? [00:58:10] Speaker B: He's saying that because of time. He's saying that because the fastest, he's the, he's the established Batman they have. And James Gunn is saying, but that's not the story I intend to tell. [00:58:22] Speaker A: As you know, he's talking now. He's not. He's having that conversation. [00:58:26] Speaker B: Seems a gun won the argument for the time being. Now, I can tell you, if Superman doesn't do its thing at the box office, he's going to lose that conversation and all subsequent conversations that I can tell you look brave and the bold has no room for a Robert Pattinson Batman. As I said, I'm not. Look, if you want to me, there's two paths. If you make Robert Pattinson, you're Batman. What you're. And then you have to, by the way, contend with, will Robert Pattinson do it? If Matt Reeves is not his director, which I think is a real question. [00:58:58] Speaker A: He'S not gonna want to do it. You gotta recast anyway. [00:59:02] Speaker B: So that's one aspect of it. But even if you could convince him to do it, beyond his trilogy, you are going to be scrapping brave and the bold. The whole concept of this older Bruce Wayne and this younger, crazy Damian Wayne doesn't work with a 30 something Robert Pattinson as this version that we're seeing of Bruce Wayne and Batman's journey, it doesn't work. [00:59:27] Speaker A: For Batman. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Well, there was. Someone said there was a rumor the other day about middle aged Batman. And James Gunn was like, no, we're definitely. But, like, he was like, it's not true. That's what we're casting. But, like, you know, he's saying, we haven't formally started casting for that. He's not saying Batman won't be middle aged. People need to, like, read his stuff, like, when he responds closely because he always leaves himself out a lot of ways. But I just. I think it's very unlikely. And I think Zaslav simply brought it up because, as I said, he's under a lot of time pressure, the company's under a lot of cash pressure. Like, getting Batman out and about is important, especially if it's a new, you know, new and exciting or even an established Batman like that. That's why he's saying he's guaranteed money. Yeah, I don't think he's saying it because he's like, James, your idea stinks. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Oh, no, no, no. Definitely. [01:00:21] Speaker B: He's saying it because he's like, look at the books, man. Like, the vault is a little bit low. [01:00:25] Speaker A: Like, we're trying to figure it out. [01:00:29] Speaker B: We need wheels, we need dollars. [01:00:32] Speaker A: But he doesn't understand. [01:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:34] Speaker A: What's involved. It's just not that simple. [01:00:36] Speaker B: Yeah, this is like Bruce Wayne and Dark knight rises where they, like, they steal his handprint and, like, begging. Like, that's what's happening. The Warner brothers right now. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Let's get to spidey for Spidey. Brian, Tom Holland just wrote. I mean, that's his wrote. Well, he wrote his signature on. And he's in. He's in it for a trilogy and some appearances in Avengers. [01:00:59] Speaker B: No, he. [01:01:00] Speaker A: He's gonna have, apparently, from what I've heard, he's gonna have some Robert Downey junior relationship with, which is weird. I don't know if you got some insight on that. But, Brian, what do we expect from this spidey four? Apparently, Brian, Zoe Saldana is outd. That's always. Zendaya is out. Apparently, from what I heard. There's room that she's not in this. That's what I heard. I haven't heard anything otherwise. But we'll discuss that once we get confirmation of that. But, Brian, your thoughts on what's happening with Spidey Four? [01:01:46] Speaker B: Well, I just. I think the main takeaway is they're definitely fast tracking this. Right. So the latest report is they got a May 25 filming date in the UK. Gonna shoot May to October. We had previously heard Holland's filming schedule was going to be set up so that he could do both that and Avengers five simultaneously. So I think it's just more, this movie's happening. Like they've. Whatever they're. It feels like they've resolved the storyline. I think Marvel won this based upon what we're hearing about, like, the contractual situation about Holland getting permission now to be in other MCU projects and kind of back to where we were, which sort of has always been Marvel winning the storytelling battle. And that's good. [01:02:34] Speaker A: The thing is, Brian, Sony has nothing to let. They have nothing to be like, prop the chest up. They have nothing to say. [01:02:41] Speaker B: Well, I think they. My theory, other than we have. See, my theory. Yeah. My theory on what happens in that room is every time a Spider man movie comes out and does well, which obviously homecoming, far from home. No way home. All did. Sony leads the conversation with, yeah, but it's our character. [01:02:59] Speaker A: It's us. [01:02:59] Speaker B: We did that. And then the conversation always ends with Kevin being like, yeah, but who gave you the idea? Who gave you the story? Good luck. Let me know how that goes. I'll be waiting. And then Sony kind of puts their hands together. [01:03:12] Speaker A: So. [01:03:15] Speaker B: Guy like. And then they. That's how I always imagine it. That's. Yeah, so, but you're right. There's been a rumor about casting a new female lead. I don't interpret that necessarily that Zanziah is out of the role. I simply interpret that as MJ is not the female lead of the movie. Because remember, in like, homecoming, like Laura Harrier's character, Washington, the female lead of that, and MJ was like a peripheral. Oh, there she is. Right. I think it's more like that. I think it's in the reset friendly neighborhood Spider man based upon wherever they're taking the story now that they don't. MJ doesn't remember him. She might be in the movie, but she's no longer like the primary relationship. So the one they're talking about is maybe that black Cat is sort of the. The opposite for him in this particular movie. I can see that. I don't think, like I said, I don't think it precludes Zendaya coming back. I think it could just be they're freshening up the interplay and the dynamics and the possibilities. [01:04:18] Speaker A: But, uh, again, there's always that question and people brought up on Reddit that she doesn't remember Peter, but she'd certainly remember Spider man. So it'll be interesting to understand that aspect. [01:04:36] Speaker B: Can we talk about this downy thing? Cause this makes no sense. [01:04:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:04:39] Speaker B: So there is this blurb in this Spider man four filming thing that says that Doctor Doom is having a role in Spider man four and that Doom and Peter Parker have a relationship that will carry forward in a pivotal way to Avengers five. I'm confused. And I think they're going for the shock value of Downey's. Stark brought Hollins Parker into the MCU, and they want it to be jarring for you to see those two on screen now with a different, maybe antagonistic relationship. But I don't know. Do you like that idea? [01:05:29] Speaker A: I don't like any idea of Robert Downey junior being back other than life, modern decoy. I don't like any idea. I don't. I don't like them having to play on a dynamic that worked before. Now they're redoing everything but different. It's like. It reminds me of Beverly Hills cop two, Johnny Wishbone. It's like kibbles and bits, but different. But we just have to wait and see. I can't. I would say that the dynamics of understanding, of how Tom Holland gets to see RDJ's doom and what that will be like, how they make this work is what interests me, Brian, how they make this work. [01:06:18] Speaker B: But that's weird because it's like. [01:06:20] Speaker A: It is weird. [01:06:21] Speaker B: The impact. The impact of that visual is more for us as the audience than it is for Peter. Because don't tell me that, like, Peter is going to be like, hey, you look just like Tony Stark. That he's not going to do that doesn't make any sense. Unless it is Tony Stark, right? Which they're telling us it's not. It still could be, I guess, unless it's universe Tony Stark, then maybe it makes a little more. But you see what I'm saying? Like, that is more for us going to the theater saying we're used to those two guys being almost like father and son on screen, and now the father's trying to presumably undercut and ultimately destroy the son. But Peter doesn't feel that. This Peter seems unrealistic. I don't see how he would know that. So that's what feels bizarre to me. It's like if the playbook here is to have Downey somewhat retrace his steps with these characters that he built chemistry with as a hero, but now he's going to be a villain, and he's then therefore going to be out of the mask a lot of the time. I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I don't know what the analogy is. I remember at one point when James Cameron was going to do Terminator two, his original idea was to have Michael Bean be the t 1000 so that Kyle Reese would be the villain and Arnold would be the hero. So they would flip the visual from Terminator one, and they determined that that would have been too, too overwhelming for Sarah, who was already in the insane asylum, to do that. And they wind up with Robert Patrick. But that kind of feels like what they're trying to do here. It's like we're going to put Downey in the villain role, but then have him kind of do these things that he did as Tony Stark and interact with people as he did with Tony Stark, but now he's going to be the villain to them. I don't know. It scares me, man. It's just like I still haven't seen the thing where I'm like, aha. This makes sense to me as to what they're doing with the Downey doom, but he's working a lot, Pablo. So I think we're getting our answer as to how in Downey is from a time commitment standpoint, he's putting in work because think about this. So he's going to cameo, supposedly, in Fantastic four. He's got a role supposedly in this movie. We know. And then for Avengers five, the report that came out is that he, he has the most days on set of any character in that movie. So he's working supposedly, like 90 days on that movie. None of the heroes is working more than 30. Was the report. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Interesting? [01:08:52] Speaker B: So they were going to bring in groups of heroes, they said, for like a month at a time, but he would always be working through that opposite all. [01:08:59] Speaker A: I see how they make this work. [01:09:01] Speaker B: Brian, means it's on him. It means they really are putting it on him again, like, legit are putting it on him to save this enterprise. [01:09:10] Speaker A: Didn't they put it on him when he did Doolittle? Wasn't it on him? [01:09:14] Speaker B: There was another rumor that Captain Marvel has a major role to play. [01:09:19] Speaker A: Oh, I read that. The first question, the first word that came out of my mind that jumped out was, why? Right? Like, why is she involved in this in any way? What are they trying to. What? I don't know, Brian. I don't know, Brian. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Then we got a thing saying scarlet witch has a major role to play in Avengers five and six. And then we got, obviously, we know Tom Holland has a major role to play in five and six. [01:09:56] Speaker A: This is the story. No matter what anybody says the story is, how do they make this all work? [01:10:02] Speaker B: But the other thing I hear when I hear that is, cut to Shang Chi on the bench. Put me in, coach. Where are the new characters? I know all three of them. Yeah, I know all three of them. So are we really gonna do this? We're. Now, we know the Fantastic Four is new and they're coming, but. So we're really, we're really gonna ride with all these old characters, and we're just gonna pretend like everyone we try to introduce after endgame is gonna, what? Be squashed by Doom in the first team? Like in Transformers, the movie? We're just gonna just wipe them out in the first 20 minutes. [01:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting, man, what Marvel is cooking up, because based on what we know as the ingredients to all of this, they don't look like they mix well. But I'm always around to be pleasantly surprised at the. The result. If you're able to. To convince me that this is not going to be a desperate attempt at you cooking up something that you have no idea what you're doing, but you're trying to relive that first meal that you created, that was amazing. Can they pull it off? Brian, that's a story. [01:11:20] Speaker B: I know it's box office suicide to do this, but I am still buying James Gunn's DC, and I'm selling Kevin Marvel's Feige right here. I would rather bet on a portfolio of Superman, Batman, Penguins, Lantern, and Supergirl than I would on what I'm seeing and hearing out of more established stuff. Admittedly, in cap four, you know, Avengers five and six, I think other than Spidey four, which I am getting more excited about, whereas it seems like Marvel's got their, you know, got their eye on the ball there. I think there's more potential for Marvel disappointment and DC upside. And I realize the box office history is not with me when I say that because everything era has touched has turned to dust. [01:12:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know in the conversation below what you guys think of the state of the MCU and the things that they're trying to attempt and how they're able to make it work, because we're getting a lot of stuff that just doesn't look like they go together. And where is it leading towards? If we're all, if we all are on the same page about it all starting over with Secret wars, what are some of these storylines going to be? [01:12:41] Speaker B: I still think. I honestly still think big picture. If I was Disney, I know they probably won't do it, but after they get through the Secret wars reset, I would. I would put Avengers on the shelf for a while and I would really focus on mutants. I just would let time pass, everything settle, let people kind of forget. And then at your opportune moment, you start planting seeds in the x verse just the way X Men 97 did it. You just act like you've been there before. All of a sudden, you're doing a show, you're doing a movie, and you're like, that's Steve Rogers. He's right there. Like, that's it. Just wait a couple years. Just wait. Be. Okay. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Last thing before we sign off, Brian, we gotta just mention somebody who said out loud what they think they're gonna get out of it if. When. Once they sign up. Zachary Levi, man, bitter over Shazam because he thought he was going to be someone like Chris Evans. Who else was? [01:14:04] Speaker B: The other one is the one you got to talk about. So the quote is. The quote is from Hollywood Reporter that Zachary Levi, who has effectively left Hollywood, got some headlines this week for endorsing Donald Trump, in which he called that quote career suicide, not a political comment. That's his comment, not mine. But obviously, Zachary Levi was. He was in the dark world, and then he becomes Billy Batson. He comes, shazam. And the quote is, he was one of the warriors three. [01:14:37] Speaker A: Zachary Levi. [01:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. In the second one. Yeah. Oh, wow. Someone close to him. Right? It's an unnamed source. [01:14:43] Speaker A: Quote. [01:14:43] Speaker B: When he was cast as Shazam, it was literally his dream. He thought this was his ticket to being Chris Evans or the Rock, but it didn't happen for him, and he's bitter about that, end quote. Now, I just have to say, the fact that they put the rock in that quote to me is so hilarious, considering that it would have been perfectly reasonable for Zachary Levi to say, as Shazam, I would get to play opposite the Rock as Black Adam. And instead, as we know, the Rock said, I'm too good for you. I have to play opposite Superman and everyone else. We know how, and we know how it all played out for everyone. [01:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah. To the demise of the DCE. You can't possibly tell me that that end credit scene in the first Shazam with Mister mind this worms like creature and be like, oh, snap. You can't. You can't get excited for that. And then you come out with a semi team up movie of Shazam characters that just was like. It just wasn't going to work. [01:16:02] Speaker B: I think in retrospect, you know, we know what we know now about the history of superheroes in box office. The real warning sign for this was how little money it made at the time the first one came out because. [01:16:16] Speaker A: It was how much it made the first time. [01:16:18] Speaker B: So the first one, the budget, I believe, was 130, and it made, like, 300. So they made a little bit of money. But critically, it was really well received. [01:16:30] Speaker A: Yes. [01:16:31] Speaker B: And it came out. [01:16:32] Speaker A: I didn't like it, but go ahead. [01:16:33] Speaker B: It came out in the 2018 2019 time period. Captain Marvel, Aquaman one. Now, we've had classics, right? Black Panther, Infinity War, Endgame, like. But the point is, everything superhero in that era was making serious dollars, no matter how good or average it was. So the fact that this thing kind of didn't find a huge audience probably should have been the warning sign that the sequel was doomed before it was ever made. And the sequel bombed spectacularly and wasn't as well received. But I'm just pointing that out. Like, that's a movie that probably in 2018, 2019 should have made, like, 750. And the fact that it didn't tells you that people just, regardless of how well he was playing the character, just weren't interested in having this character around. [01:17:24] Speaker A: And see, this is the thing. Oh, it doesn't have to be connected to anything. It could stand on his own and be good. It was good, but it didn't produce what executives really want, which is money. Right? Had that been a part of something or leading towards something, more people perhaps would have gone. But maybe. [01:17:49] Speaker B: But that's where he got screwed by the Rock. How do you see it any other way? If the rocket done Black Adam in 2017 or 20 around that movie and the credit scene had been, they're going to go head to head in the sequel. Come on, tell me that's. Tell me that doesn't help both sides of that equation. The rock playing that character, playing his hand the way he did around that character, doomed not only his own movie, but killed that franchise, too. [01:18:21] Speaker A: What would the Rock say to that? [01:18:23] Speaker B: I mean, he would tell me. He would probably hit me with a spine buster and pull his elbow pad off. [01:18:32] Speaker A: Your reaction stated really quickly what it would be. B's, because you ruined that whole thing. Regardless of what you have to say about it, you ruined it. [01:18:47] Speaker B: I just don't see how even, and the thing is, this is not something in hindsight, being 2020, this is something we could have talked about in the moment, knowing just the comics legacy of these characters been like, if you introduce Shazam and they got a good Shazam movie with a good Billy Batson, that credit scene has to have Dwayne Johnson in it has to. And it automatically gets people buzzing. Then if he does his movie and then there's a credit scene where Shazam, they're clearly going to go ahead. Like, I'm just. No way that that loses. [01:19:15] Speaker A: You know why, too? Because you create this unbeatable foe because you don't believe Shazam. He's like Ralph Macchio. He can't beat Johnny. And you see him being pummeled, and you're sort of trying to root for him for. To overcome it. And apparently, and I don't know how he does it, he probably does, you know, one of those kicks that whatever, he beats him. That's what you were going for, man. And you and man, you know, it's like, how do you work with somebody that's gonna pull the obvious dough and he, damn, you see what I'm saying, man? It's like you don't want to. Look, I'm not an expert or anything like that, but it's like there's obvious things there that you can do there because at the end of the day, yeah, you want to make money, but you want to please the fans because they're the ones that giving you the money. [01:20:08] Speaker B: Yeah, but in this particular case, it shows that the people in the rock's inner circle don't understand this particular fan base. [01:20:16] Speaker A: Right. [01:20:16] Speaker B: I mean, I think the fact that his own movie ultimately played out the way it did and people didn't respond to it tells you that, like, the rock definitely understands entertainment. He understands it far better than I do. But there is a difference. When you tread in certain genres, when you tread in the Star wars universe, when you tread in the James Bond universe, when you tread in Marvel or DC, they aren't just everyday fans. And you need to figure out a way to please both sides of the aisle, both the hardcore fan and the casual fan. And I think if the rock had an open ear and he had the right people or persons in his inner circle kind of saying, listen, this is the kind of thing that you have to play the long game. Like, you have to invest upfront to get to where you want to go. You can't just skip to the front of the line. Then I think we could be in a slightly different place than we are today. [01:21:14] Speaker A: But I just think the rock's perspective is he's the business, he's the draw. He's the thing that's gonna get people in seats. And there anything else that doesn't point towards him, he. It doesn't. It's whatever. [01:21:30] Speaker B: I get it, but I'm saying. [01:21:33] Speaker A: So does he understand entertainment? [01:21:35] Speaker B: I mean, he does. [01:21:36] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:21:36] Speaker B: He does. Yeah. I can't. I mean, like, by and large, most 99.9% of people would trade careers in Hollywood with the rocks. Career like that's argue that. [01:21:47] Speaker A: But no, because here's the thing, Brian, that he is in a position where he calls the shots, and that's something that he set out to do. And that mentality of doing business doesn't work for everyone. As we already have laid it out with Black Adam and Shazam. It was his decision. The reason why Black Adam took so long is because he was busy with other stuff. [01:22:10] Speaker B: Well, that's why I say he killed Shazam. Because he was black. He was signed already years before this. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not a pipe dream to say that he could have been in the credit scene of Shazam and then he was already in the building sign, so. [01:22:25] Speaker A: But he chose. [01:22:26] Speaker B: Correct. And the thing is, you know, the studio went to them because they understood well enough what they were trying to do. So, you know, who blocked it? It was him. Like, there's no other version of that story that I'll ever believe. Like, I'll never believe even the dumbest Warner Brothers executive. And that might be saying something was in a room with making a Shazam movie saying, we're not going to connect this to black Adam at all. Of course they were going to connect to Black Adam. That's what they wanted. That's what they envisioned. And of course they went to his people and they were like, what? That's the gab. We're not interested. But my point is, look, if you look at his career, his biggest successes come when he's been made to do that. When he was introduced in fast five, he's not the sole lead of fast five. He enhances fast five by being ensemble. It's only when he then outgrows that and goes, that's when it goes off the rails. I even think of something like an animated form, like, you know, he's in Moana. Like, he's not Moana. Like, he's co lead of that because he's sharing. And people love Maui, you know? So, ironically, his career shows that, like, when he does play ball, he gets better results. And so when we grade the rocks career, like I said, 99.9% of people from a commercial and celebrity standpoint would trade their lives for the rocks. But I also, and I think you also, we're grading the rock against his own ceiling, and we're arguing that this is a guy who has left so much on the table. He's that athlete that could have been Michael Jordan and wound up being, like, a two time all star. It's not a bad career. I got paid a lot of money. But you could have been a legend. You chose not to follow the paths that would have gotten you there because. [01:24:19] Speaker A: He wanted to do his own thing. I mean, I get it. Like, you did the tooth fairy joint. What? I don't know. Some of these, these whack movies that you allowed yourself to be in because you were probably new to the industry and you didn't know any better or you didn't have a lot to say as to what you wanted to do until you made it far enough that you could do it, and then you stay. And people just loved him. Right. And people still do, but it's not producing great product. [01:24:49] Speaker B: No. [01:24:51] Speaker A: Like, yeah, you. [01:24:53] Speaker B: You did. Yeah. It's. The thing is. Yeah, you. You went for. You chose control over greatness. [01:25:01] Speaker A: Like, you would rather call the shots collaboration, possibly. [01:25:04] Speaker B: You would rather call the shots on a skyscraper, a rampage, or in a San Andreas. [01:25:10] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:25:11] Speaker B: You would star in the new predator, where you'd have to share with the modern day equivalent of Carl weathers and be directed by the modern day equivalent of John McTiernan, you. You chose not to do that because you could have had that part in a second, if that's what, that's what you and your agent want. And Shazam is no different. That's the perfect. Like, if you had chosen to be here with Zachary Levi, you both probably could have gotten here because you had to make it like this from day one. Everything ended up down here. [01:25:43] Speaker A: And he doesn't get defeated. The rock doesn't get defeated. He would have had to be defeated by Shazam. Like, you kidding? I'm pretty sure that's what he's thinking. Like, really? [01:25:54] Speaker B: His contract that he couldn't be. He couldn't be under Vin Diesel for more than x amount of time. You know, that he would have restrictions on any sort of. That same would. That's it. That's why people who are like, you know, Henry Cavill, Superman, you be glad that that never went anywhere. Be glad because you would have seen Superman get job like nothing else you've seen before opposite black Adam. That's the only way he would allowed it. [01:26:26] Speaker A: Let us know in the comments. I know this turned into something else, but, you know, we got to discuss drivers. [01:26:33] Speaker B: We got to give them range. We got to give them range. [01:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, Cezanne, man, that could have been something. But now you got this worm like creature trying to threaten and it's like, nah, man, it's not gonna work. But let us know what you guys think of that whole situation. I'll be interested to know what you think about all that and how the rock's career do you come, do you think? Who's your top three? To me, he ain't there. [01:27:05] Speaker B: Top three. [01:27:06] Speaker A: I like the. In terms of action film. Yeah. To me, yo, I have. I can sit and watch a whole bunch of Van Damme movies before I can watch a whole bunch of what. [01:27:17] Speaker B: We'Re doing all time. Oh, he's not even in the. He's not in the top five. [01:27:21] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. [01:27:23] Speaker B: Arnold Sly, Prime Willis, Prime Van Damme, Keanu. Like, I gave you five right there. It's not even like a discussion. Then we can get into like. Yeah, I don't know. Prime Seagal. I don't know if he's, he's there, but I. [01:27:38] Speaker A: He has some good joints that you would watch, though. [01:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:41] Speaker A: His joints is just. I don't know. But let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of all this and we'll see you next time on the nerdgend report. The show goes on.