Reimagining the Avengers: Are They Really Avengers Anymore?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome back to another episode. A lot to talk about. Yeah. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Let's talk about from the standpoint of the event, Avengers, the kind of the rewrite of Avengers 5 and how this seems to be moving away from the Avengers. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Yeah. When so Fantastic Four seems. The rumor is. Is this a rumor report? [00:00:25] Speaker B: Yeah, this is. [00:00:26] Speaker A: Okay, so this is a report that people are saying that the Fantastic Four are more central to Avengers Doomsday. When I read that and Doctor Strange isn't it. When I read that, I started thinking about. So why is this an Avengers movie? Again, the people behind this film seem to think that this fantastic, this Fantastic Four movie is fantastic, is great. Hence this report. And I know you said or you think that is not going to happen. And I don't think so either. But if they're that good and if they're that more central and if this is more of a Fantastic Four versus Doom film, let's say Fantastic Four is a smash. Is there a problem with renaming this film? They've done it with other films possibly early in this stage. But when is Doomsday supposed to come out? 2026. Right. [00:01:43] Speaker B: In theory, I think it's going to slip again. [00:01:45] Speaker A: But yeah, sure, you have time to make that possible. Possible adjustment. If Fantastic Four is that great, is that it brings in mad money and they're more central to Avengers Doomsday. Are you. What are you doing to the, I guess, psyche of the audience and. And them having them to believe that this is actually an Avengers movie when because them showing up, they were in the movie Civil War for more than just a few minutes. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:18] Speaker A: So they show up for less than just if they show up as cameos. Can you really sell this to me as an Avengers movie? That's the question. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the difference is obviously Civil War is still a Captain America centric story. The Avengers are linked by his sort of moral dilemma around the Accords and the conflict between him and Tony. I don't think they will just from a marketing standpoint because the, the, the word Avengers at the front of your movie carries big, you know, with it. And I think they won't go away from that but to go to the report. So keep in mind, the reason why these reports may have weight is that the Russo brothers and McFeely are confirmed to have basically thrown out everything that they had to work with before. This is a complete start over. And so Benedict Cumberbatch added to this fire when he said and confirmed and literally said, is this a spoiler? Eff it. He said that in the interview and then said, I'm not in. I'm not in Doomsday because of the change in story, I. E. I was in Kang Dynasty. I am not in Doomsday. I am in Secret wars, he said. And he said he's in a lot of Secret wars, but he's not in Doomsday. We also remember last week or a week or two ago, we got the confirmation or the report, which I think is probably true, that Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds are in Avengers Doomsday. So looks like all the new kids on the block here, right? Fantastic Four, Deadpool, Wolverine. No sign. No sign of the titular characters. They're all on the bench. Oh, and obviously this is largely going to be a downy vehicle anyway, as we know, because they got to get Doom over and he's got to get Doom over. So he's in every scene is what we're being told. He's shooting with everyone. So there probably isn't room, right? There probably isn't room for a lot of characters anyway. But it's very clear from a bankability perspective, Marvel's betting on the Fantastic Four, which is probably a good sign for that movie. And they're betting on the known quantities. Robert Downey, Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman. Like, show me somebody on the other side of the lineup who's as sure fire money as those guys. That's what they're doing. But to your point, this is unrecognizable as an Avengers movie anymore. [00:04:57] Speaker A: What is it again? What does it mean to be an Avenger? I don't know. I spent. I definitely asked the question after Shangchi and his, his, his co pilot in the film were automatically Avengers. Like, there's just no initiation. You don't jump him in. You don't do nothing. What. How do you. How do you get into the Avengers? So the. The Avengers term now is just too loose in terms of who's in or out. If you. It's almost like if you're a superhero, you're automatically an Avenger, almost. If you meet him, all you gotta do is meet him and you're in. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Well, remember, it is not in the same timeline. Remember the. The opening of Deadpool? What's he doing? He's applying to be an Avenger. He's in Stark's offices with Happy Hogan talking about his need to be an Avenger. I'm sure that gets paid off in some way in Avengers 5. But to your point, that's the definition of like, what is an event, right? What is An Avenger. Right. And Happy Hogan kind of lays out that argument of what makes them Avengers. But yeah, no, this is. This is Avengers movie in name only. To be clear, there's a marketing ploy under which the commercial drive will be Downey, Reynolds, Jackman, and a seemingly big bet on Fantastic Four, which is, as we said, I think it's sort of this like alternate timeline, soft reset, like new path for where Marvel's future is going. So I think it is very much a bet on the future. I think Secret wars will be the nod to the past. Everybody comes back, everybody gets a little moment. But even this current lineup of Avengers, I think is going to be more like the portal scene. Right. They're going to come from everywhere, but they're not necessarily going to be like front and center for the solution. They're part of the final battle, but they're not necessarily part of the key to the solution. We'll see. But that's kind of my feeling. The only one I feel like who hasn't been spoken for, who will actually, I think, play a real role is Spider Man. I think Tom Holland will still be because he is marketable as Spider man. And I think he'll be part of this too. [00:07:11] Speaker A: The final battle is going to. Is going to be similar to Ultron final battle. A bunch of Doom bots. Mad Doom bots. Hopefully that's not the case. I'm just saying. [00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that gets a little repetitive. Right. This is one of the complaints. It's what made Endgame special was you got that fight between him and the original three really in full before you got the obligatory grand battle. [00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Dr. May show up as in a end credit scene, I would think at the end of Doomsday. If he's in Secret wars and not in this movie, I would assume he will make an end credit scene appearance to sort of make that connection to that. [00:08:01] Speaker B: Do you think Doom is in the credits of Fantastic Four? First steps? [00:08:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:07] Speaker B: This story makes me think. Yes, yes. [00:08:10] Speaker A: And I think we're going to see a fly. And. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Why would. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If we see them trying to. That's. That's Doom. Hopefully they do that because that would be dope. [00:08:26] Speaker B: Followed by Miyagi man who catch fly. Can do. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Exactly. Imagine somebody trying to catch it with a chopstick. The thing trying to catch it. He's trying to. Oh, snap. So casting rumors. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Some confirmed, some not. But there was so many of these in the span of a week, I just figured let's make it Its own topic. And we can kind of react what we like, what we don't like. This is in the category. I know you want to talk about this. I'll just tee this up for you. Reports, strong reports. And I think there's probably real truth to this that far from unretiring to do one movie and maybe a little Secret wars and maybe a little doomsday. Yeah, I think the floodgates have opened. So the reports are that Disney and Hugh Jackman would like him to continue as Wolverine for another 10 years, including a trilogy of Deadpool and Wolverine movies. [00:09:28] Speaker A: I wonder if they even tried to see whom else is capable of portraying this character. I don't doubt that at some point we're gonna get it in the midst. I don't know if this guy could play Wolverine for that long. Especially if you. Once you get into the Mutant saga, are you gonna do this big reveal thing for him coming back or whatever the case may be? Is your. Is your plan. It is to just do some of these other characters and give us what. Do whatever you need to do in terms of introducing these characters. Are you going to do that and just have Hugh Jackman just come in later, date a big surprise, a big pop in the theater, whatever the case may be. Is that your plan? Instead of possibly given the opportunity to show a new version, give us everything that we need to see with Wolverine that's different and better? Why can't it be better? Why is this the bar that we can't exceed? Why? [00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like saying Nicholson's the only person who could ever play the Joker. In retrospect, that's a ludicrous statement. As good as he was in getting nominated for an Oscar at the time. [00:10:48] Speaker A: So they're not even trying because this is all money driven. This is. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Now we get to it. The last part of the report, to me, that's the one that matters. Next 10 years, including a trilogy of what? Deadpool and Wolverine films. So come on, people, remember. He's even saying it in the movie. He's going to be playing this till he's 90. He's telling you what he's going to be talking to the studio about. And then his movie went and broke records. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker B: And then Ryan Reynolds went in and said, this is how it's going to be. My boy is going to be Wolverine for as long as I want him to be Wolverine. [00:11:35] Speaker A: So you. Would it be fair to say? Because last a few. I think a few shows ago, I said the power of Ryan Reynolds. And you Said is the power of the box office is both. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Again, have they even tried to offer this role to someone else? I'm sure to Rod Egerton has been mentioned. He probably wanted to play, but it doesn't work. I'm sorry. It doesn't work. [00:12:00] Speaker B: I'm sure. [00:12:01] Speaker A: Unless he's trying to do something like the Penguin and get prosthetics to look like the character. I don't know. [00:12:07] Speaker B: I'm sure Marvel has done work on other actors. I'm sure there's been conversations that have raise this possibility. But everything here. And look, Hugh, by all accounts, was happily retired. This has Ryan Reynolds fingerprints all over it. And if Deadpool 3 had been a flop. We're not having this. Let's be honest. Like, what? Just be honest with yourself. If Deadpool 3 had been poor and poorly received, do you honestly believe this conversation is being had? No, there's no way. But here we are. And I agree, like, and again, this is not. This is not a knock on Hugh Jackman as Wolverine or the work he has put in. Right. He's in the hall of fame. Like, his claws are in there. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah. There's no question. [00:12:57] Speaker B: But there has to be evolution. There has to be a future for these characters, you know, to draw, like, parallels. It's like they want to do, I think, Warner Brothers trying to do, like, new Lord of the Rings universe movies, right? And they're like, we need Ian McKellen back as Gandalf. He's 86. Like, he was amazing as Gandalf. That was 25 years ago. Like, other people can play the character. It's okay. [00:13:26] Speaker A: That is an inability to. You either don't have money to pay a casting director, or you just are being so lazy and trying to find your next gander. Well, next Wolverine. [00:13:40] Speaker B: But here's the thing that has a diminishing return to it. It does. Because they'll come a day where Hugh Jackman is. Wolverine is going to be Willie Mays in center field for the Mets falling down because he can't see the ball in the sun anymore. They'll come a day where the audience gets tired of this and you could. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Say, deadpool, Wolverine gets Hulk Hogan. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, like, right. No, you're right. Wrestling is a good analogy. Right. You can't run the sh. Stick for 25 years interminably, over and over again. John Cena, same thing, right? Like the rock flip from corporate champion to people's champion. Like, that's why they do this, because they refresh. Is necessary for the AUDIENCE so my point is, yeah, you can say today, because Deadpool and Wolverine was a hit, that it seems like a good idea. But I'm telling you, like, I don't think it's going to take that long. If you get into the new into the Mutant saga and if Hugh Jackman is still there doing the same things, you know, in the movie after movie, I think people are going to start to be like, all right, can I see somebody new? I think it's coming sooner than Disney realizes. If you want to do something in the Deadpool, Wolverine only world because the first one was such a huge hit. Yeah, inevitable. But why does he have to be the new Wolverine for what you're trying to build? [00:14:59] Speaker A: Why is to me is just lazy. I mean, if you want to just do Tango and Cash, do a trilogy, Tango and Cash, immortality, take it, it's yours. [00:15:13] Speaker B: They should. You're right. I mean, you're right, they should do that. But yeah, look, I mean, you're including them in Doomsday. They're going to be in Secret Wars. It's dangerous, man. You're kind of. It is the near term, near termism of it, right? I need that dollar today. I need that box office dollar today. But I need my money. [00:15:28] Speaker A: I need my money. I need my money right now. [00:15:30] Speaker B: I think you are starting to cannibalize your future by doing this stuff like this. So I think this will happen and I think we're going to be unhappy about it when we get our new lineup and it's still and we nod Hugh Jackman for Everything is Done and say, I just wish it didn't have to be you. [00:15:46] Speaker A: And this is the thing. I, I think he has the ability to be convincing as Wolverine for as long as he can do it. But it's like, why risk that possibility of people not liking him in that role anymore and wanting to see somebody new? Why take that risk of doing that and just let him do his trilogy and be out and just. Perhaps they don't want the comparison. Right? But here's the thing, here's the thing you do. Let's say Marvel decides to do that. They do their trilogy outside of this new MCU and you got a Wolverine running around their new one. Just, it's. This just makes the case for my Batman analogy. [00:16:37] Speaker B: You know, you're right. [00:16:38] Speaker A: You know, you can do it. You can do it. [00:16:42] Speaker B: You know, it's so hypocritical because it's like on the one hand, like Hollywood doesn't hesitate to remake sacred movies. All the time with iconic performances, they don't have any fear of that. Why do we fear that with roles like this? Like, you know, I watched that. You know, I recently watched the Superman or the Christopher Reeve documentary, which is very moving and very well done. So by today's logic, if he never has the accident, should he have been in Superman Returns? [00:17:16] Speaker A: I'm certain that there was no question that no after quest four after. [00:17:21] Speaker B: So I'm just saying though. But yeah, but nobody embodied or looked a character more than he did. [00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:28] Speaker B: So are you telling me that 20 and 30 years later it had to still be him playing Clark Kent? Like. No. [00:17:35] Speaker A: This is ridiculous. Hollywood. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think this is going to happen, though. I put this in a high probability this is going to happen and we're going to be grousing about it and it's going to seem like we're not Hugh Jackman fans, which we are of the work he's done. But I think that's where we're headed. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:55] Speaker B: All right. Staying in the X verse, though. Okay. Storm. So we've talked about this being a huge character casting when it comes. We've already had some rumors. We have another one IO Adebiri award winning actress in the Bear co lead of that show. She was in Thunderbolts. I will point that out. She was originally cast to play something Thunderbolts. And then because of the delays and stuff, she couldn't do it so she dropped out. The rumor is that she is the latest one to maybe be considered or cast as Storm. Your thoughts on if that's true? Her as the. The African princess. [00:18:37] Speaker A: I got to see it on screen. If they see it. If this is. We're considering her because she read for the. For the. If they've done that, then I guess I'll trust that when we see her on screen, we believe it. If this is. She's the hottest next African American actress. I'm not with it. I don't think she for me embodies the role of Storm based on what I've seen in the past. And I'm not talking about live action. I'm talking about in the comics, in animation and what people look at her as. She's a vet. She has a very distinct look. Can they pull that off with her? We'll see. That's. But I have my. The Wanda Wise is my choice. [00:19:49] Speaker B: My thing with. Yeah, my thing with her. So she's in the. In the demographic in the right age bracket. She's 29. Right. So she's already won An Emmy. It's already run a Golden Globe. The body of work for which I'm familiar with her for is limited. I really know her from the Bear and she is a really interesting character in that show, but she's oftentimes kind of a beta character, struggling to be a more alpha character. And that's kind of what stuck in my head a little bit because of Aurora Monroe being regal. It's a leap from what I have seen. Is this character strong enough in her presentation and her delivery to capture what I believe is the essence of Storm. That's the struggle I'm having with. With if this is true, and I think this is probably coin flip at best. I think Marvel's still kind of shopping around and still pretty early. I don't. I don't think this is a lock. But she does fit some of the profile that I think they would be looking for. So I think it's worth. Worth discussing, but I'm not sold yet is what I mean. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Again, if they're offering her this role because she's read for it and people see her as a role, then you. Then. Then I'm not necessarily a believer. I'm just saying that I'll see it on screen and just for myself. But right now I can't see it. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Ryan Gosling, Brian reportedly in talks to be the lead of the Shawn Levy Star wars movie, which we don't necessarily know what that's about, but word came that he's in talk. I think there's probably a decent chance of this, it seems like whether it's Marvel, whether it's Star Wars, Disney's been calling him and they've definitely been having conversations. And he's done IP work before. Right. He's been in Blade Runner. So this is a guy who will consider stuff like that. He's lobbied for Ghost Rider. We know that he's. He's wants to do that. But your react if Star wars announces Ryan Gosling as the headliner for a new film, does it. How much does it matter to your excitement or anticipation for that project? [00:21:57] Speaker A: Ryan Gosling is a great actor. He is. I mean, if you look at his lineup and he's just. He's good at everything that he pretty much does. And he brings an intensity to whatever sort of tone you want to convey to your audience. If we want a serious tone drama, I think he'll bring that to the role. For. Is it. I don't know if he's a Jedi. I don't know. Whatever he is, if he's a main character. I think people will show up to see what this is. [00:22:40] Speaker B: I agree to a point. But I would say the track record of Ryan Gosling as box office leading man is mixed. Right. Like Blade Runner 2049 is an excellent movie that didn't sell. Fall Guy is a reasonably entertaining movie that didn't sell. Barbie sold, but not really because of him. So I don't know that putting Ryan Gosling at the top of your poster guarantees you much of anything other than he'll probably be good and fun to watch. [00:23:10] Speaker A: It could, I think that's the mixture there. [00:23:13] Speaker B: It could, but I. So it does feel like he is going to wind up doing something in one of these ips just because there's so many rumors that attach him to these projects. Sooner or later one will hit. But like I said, I don't know that it necessarily changes my it dramatically. It heightens my anticipation for this project which again, as with all Star wars projects, you never know if they're even going to make it. Like we won't even. I'm not gonna, we're not gonna get much time. The. The latest Daisy Ridley, like new writer for her movie, like starting over, like, whatever. Like, like I just, I don't know. We'll see. But anyway. Okay, so we had, we had, we had Ryan Gosling here now confirmed casting. Small one, but character wise. Interesting. So Lanterns has cast a. That guy. I guarantee if you've seen stuff you would recognize the face. Ulrich Thompson. But it's not him that's the news. It's who he's playing. He's playing Sinestro. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:12] Speaker B: So Sinestro's in the series and apparently judging from his IMDb like you wouldn't hire this guy to be in the show for a minute. So what do you think about that with Sinestro actually are being part of season one or the lead of this show? [00:24:29] Speaker A: It sort of makes me think about again how much of the Lanterns in uniform will see. And Sinestro is a very particularly different looking individual. Having him show up on Earth interacting with whom, I don't know, what's that gonna look like? Is he gonna be in disguise like the leader in. In Cat 4 or how what's his role going to be in if he's on Earth looking how he looks. And this is a serious character so it'll be interesting to see if they dedicate an episode to his past. [00:25:15] Speaker B: The one thing I thought of was he could be in flashback because he's more connected to how than to John So if they want to show the legacy of how Kyle Chandler becomes what, how Jordan is intergalactically, okay. That may be where he fits versus on Earth in the investigation of whatever they're doing. That would be a thought. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:25:37] Speaker B: But I'm just kind of. I was just kind of. It opened my eyes that he was going to be in the show. Like, given how grounded the show is, this is definitely taking you more in my mind towards space and toward effects and toward Lantern work. So that's why I was curious that he, he. That this character is on the cash sheet. So. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so that was interesting. [00:25:57] Speaker A: All right. [00:25:57] Speaker B: Last casting one and it's the most. It's the most lightning rod one. [00:26:04] Speaker A: So light. Emphasis on light. [00:26:08] Speaker B: God. So yeah, there's, there's. We had heard the John David Washington rumor for Black Panther and the T'Challa recast before. Although interestingly, he doesn't necessarily totally fit with what's. What I'm about to say next. But yeah, they said Marvel is talking in particular to and considering, quote, light skinned black actors to introduce as a reimagined t'challa or to Saint his son. To which I think I just texted you. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Because what I mean, again, yo, it's like if that is the case, I'm not, I'm not even gonna. I'm not even gonna. When I saw Campion again, I like watching Campy. I respect what he does. But him just mentioning Reggae. What's his name again? The guy. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Reggae. Jean Page. Yeah. British actor from British. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Not understanding the problem with that is a problem for me. And it's going to be a problem in terms of what people are talking about and not necessarily talking about the right things, but talking about something that. We got to talk about this now. [00:27:34] Speaker B: Oh, that's it. [00:27:37] Speaker A: If they do this, that's going to be a problem. That's all. That's all. That's all I can say. [00:27:46] Speaker B: As you said, we just saw a real kerfuffle about this with Aaron Pierre becoming Jon Stewart, which is far more defensible. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Than this. Which actually doesn't make sense. Right. I mean, like just if you think about the art, if you're recasting T'Challa introducing a grown up version of his son, you know, the lineage of those characters. Why. Why would you limit yourself in this respect? I'm confused. I'm really confused. When I saw this and it makes me almost want to call it B.S. but I'm like, is that where we are? That they, they don't think there's an option out there besides going a light route for this. I think there will be a hellstorm if they do it. And to your point, I think people will be beside themselves. [00:28:38] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:28:39] Speaker B: And it will, it will take over the narrative of this movie until, you know, ultimately you get trailers and you get footage and maybe you can bring it back. But this feels like a great way for Disney to get itself behind the eight ball on a critical project for no reason out of the gate if, if this is true. [00:28:57] Speaker A: And one of the things that I, when I think about it, and I don't think it'll happen as you say, is Ryan Cougar. I don't think Ryan Cougar will let that happen. [00:29:07] Speaker B: I agree. That's why I also think the room. I'm inclined to say maybe there's folks at Marvel who feel this way or folks at Disney who feel this way, but he has control of this property more so than most directors do. And I agree with you 100%. [00:29:19] Speaker A: This is another. He's not in the room when these conversations are being had. And that's a problem. That's a problem. You're not casting my t'challa. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah, like he's out making that sinner's vampire movie with Michael B. Jordan and like he like, he gets a text from his agent. He's like, what? [00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, he like, cut, cut, cut. Hold on a second, I'll be right back. I'm like, yo, what you got? What are you guys doing? This is. I'm in charge of this joint. Yeah, but you know, it's like these things, this is, these are sort of moments that you sort of like, wait, have somebody but your. Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. Let's, let's, let's figure out a response that they get the idea without us getting going crazy on them, you know, like it. Because if he's in the room, he's like, this is, this doesn't even go. Go out. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think it's John David Washington. And I would be very surprised if the actor is light skinned or that the search is limited to light skinned black actors. [00:30:32] Speaker A: I'm going say it again. Abu Bakar Saline. Bo knows. Like I gotta find the, the, the commercial music and put it in the background when we start. Start this segment. [00:30:55] Speaker B: What a classic ad too. I forget something. Remember some of the things they were like, Bo knows. Whatever they had the whole thing, everything. Unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable. [00:31:04] Speaker A: But Bo knows on X Men Storm and episode four, what has been said. [00:31:10] Speaker B: Brian, about this okay, so there's two parts of this, both of which tie to Aurora Monroe and actually tie to the conversation we were. This is interesting to me because episode four, at the time we discussed it, I thought it was a deliberate sort of light hearted tangent to set you up for the heart wrench of episode five leading to spoiler alert, Gambit's death. But come to find out from Botameo, that was not the original intent. There was a different episode four, but he claims that the original episode four was intended to focus much more on the relationship between Storm and Forge and then they would move on to what we saw in episode five. But he said, quote, X Men 97 producers stole the episode away and gave it to an editor on what if to redo it to her. That's a Victoria Delonzo reference, her vision, which coincidentally eviscerated about one third of Storm story and split episode four into two separate pieces. End quote. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Let me get this straight. Episode four was episode four. Also that I did. Jubilee. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Jubilee video game. It's the Jubilee video, like video game nostalgia episode. [00:32:41] Speaker A: And that episode people don't see it is considered. [00:32:45] Speaker B: It would probably be considered the weakest of the episodes. I think the consensus would be that's the one that probably is the least of fitting in tone and the one people talk about the least. [00:32:59] Speaker A: You can't help for me, Brian, and for me, my perspective, you can't help but people not wanting to show that sort of relationship and diminishing, putting it behind an episode that most people didn't like to even notice it. [00:33:22] Speaker B: What is. So what's interesting when he says that it made me rethink about the placement of Storm in the season. And I kind of immediately was like, oh yeah, she was gone for a little bit. And this I guess, is why. And he says doubles down on this. He wanted to kickstart the episode by recreating a specific page from the comics featuring Forge taking care of Storm. But the aforementioned what if editor decided to leave the scene on the cutting room floor. When Bodimayo protested, he received, quote, the usual stop being a comics collector speech. End quote. [00:34:05] Speaker A: That's what they think of comic book readers. They don't want to pay homage to what's been done in the classics. They don't want to do any of that. That's why they hire people that have limited expertise on it. And then they give it to you, go crazy. Then we get what if three, which. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Is again, you're right, this is a lot of it, right? He the reason why he's doing this is because the what if crew is now taking over season two of X Men 97, including the showrunner. So that's why he is drawing your attention to these changes. He is warning you about a potential quality fall off in season two of this show that he clearly is A, betting on and B, quite honestly, is probably rooting for. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Oh yeah, definitely. He's just laying down the groundwork for people to realize what goes on behind the scenes. They didn't want to show Black on Black Love, Black on black crime 24 7, but black on Black love give you half an episode, a quarter. [00:35:05] Speaker B: So then he adds, he had approached Gil Birmingham, a notable Native American actor who you see in Yellowstone, to voice Forge for the series. Birmingham, according to demeo, was reluctant to step into the role because he had been involved in a previous MCU project and had his role cut without notice. I'm guessing that was Ekko, but I'm not sure. It doesn't say what. However, Deo says he managed to convince him to take the part only for Marvel Studios and the what if producers to do the same thing to Gil Birmingham again as a result of this editing of this episode. [00:35:50] Speaker A: So what was he in? So he wasn't in anything in that episode? Well, he was a forge or not technically, yes. [00:35:59] Speaker B: So he's credited technically as Forged. But the point is his, his lines and his whatever he voiced never made it into final cut. [00:36:08] Speaker A: The special episode was cut in terms of episode five was def like the. But episode four could have been a lead up and some sort of like even perhaps brought even more emotional, I mean, duress. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Let's be honest, the more this guy gives you the behind the scenes, and let's not make no mistake, I guarantee you he's at the tip of the iceberg on this. He is metering this content out. It will go all the way through season two. At some point along the way, there's going to be a phone call. He's going to pick up the phone and it's going to be, hey, Bo is Zack Snyder. You know what to do. You know what to do next. [00:36:51] Speaker A: You have the footage? [00:36:53] Speaker B: Did you take the footage? You know, you know what's coming if the more he puts out. Yeah, there's going to be a question from the fans and there's going to be a demand for like, can we see the Original X Men 90, the BO nose cut of X Men 97? [00:37:11] Speaker A: Yes. He's shedding light on what's happening behind the scenes with this. With, with what we're expected to get for X Men Season 2. And that if you don't like it, this is why. And that doesn't bode well for what you were able to accomplish with season one. And now we gotta get this. If this is horrible, Brian, this is not gonna be good. Imagine that. X Men. I don't know. I don't know if what transpires here will translate into our excitement, into the Mutant saga or whatever they call it. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Then he adds more Storm commentary. And this is where, actually, to our prior discussion about the casting and recasting of T'Challa. I think he's actually inadvertently lending our fuel to the fire that someone like Ryan Kubrick would not allow that kind of mistake to be made. So he says, I'm just going to quote him directly from Socials. I don't know. I'll say this. They wanted to recast Storm for X Men 97, meaning Alison Sealy Smith, who voiced Aurora Monroe in the X Men, the animated series from the 90s. That's what he's saying. Recast her. It was odd hearing a table of white Marvel executives tell me and the other black crew members that we were wrong because she, meaning Celie Smith, didn't sound, quote, African enough, whatever that means. So we went with their pick, meaning they changed her out. Then they realized we were right, and they forced the team to break their backs rerecording half of the season with the OG Storm. [00:39:03] Speaker A: This is the frustrating part. This is the frustrating part. When this is talk, this is having actually no voice when you're in the room. Even if you're in the room, you have no voice to be trusted enough to give their vision of what? This. Because you hired me for this. This is what you hired me for. We're the experts in this. You are just providing me the resources to make it happen. That's what you are. Let's not get it twisted. You hired me for a job, and this is what I'm doing. Don't tell me what you want to see on tv. Nah. Because that's not your expertise. Your expertise is to help me make it. That's it. You want to. Sure. But at the end of the day, I have final say of what this is going to look like. And after. And if it doesn't work out, thank you for giving me the opportunity. You want to fire me, Go ahead. But. But at least I did it my way. And that's a chance. Because when you do it your way, this is what happens. Because you don't know. You don't know. You're not Bonos. You know, you don't know. This is why you get me. [00:40:11] Speaker B: I mean it's definitely implying a lot of the through line in this is. It's implying as good as this show was, he certainly believes it could have and should have been better. And obviously he is, you know, granted, a biased commentator here for very obvious reasons, but he is definitely suggesting there's real risk to what's about to happen in future seasons of this. And your word of Disney Vacation, I think is going to really be top of vocabulary if this starts to follow. What, what if season three became given it's the same people in charge. So. But this goes to the point of like, okay, they're saying that on the one hand Storm is not quote, African enough if you believe this. But on the other hand, in recasting T'Challa they're seemingly going the opposite direction. That. That's where I'm kind of like one of. One of those can't really be true. Right. They're both kind of of the same. Of the same argument. So anyway. But amazing. I mean, look, again, we're giving, we're going to keep giving air time from the creatives. We don't know again, we don't know the legal stuff, but I mean this is pretty, this is pretty surreal behind the scenes content that Bota Mayo is putting out on a week almost weekly basis that I expect will continue, if not increase into season two of X Men 97. [00:41:37] Speaker A: And lastly, armor Wars. Brian being overhauled. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Armor wars again, emphasis. What the hell are we doing here, Harry? [00:41:56] Speaker A: Let me be honest, because this is what the show is about, is being honest about what people feel. Because I have conversations, you have conversations, you read articles. And the sentiment, sentiment is the only people that seem to care about it is you. No one cares about this title or these characters. No one cares. You want to redeem yourself after what you did with Secret Invasion. This is not how you do it. What you did to Secret Invasion. There is no redemption. I'm sorry. [00:42:39] Speaker B: No. [00:42:39] Speaker A: You want to redo. You want to attempt at redo redeeming that you do it after the reset, but you don't do it now because what you did was garbage. I'm sorry. Because that's the truth. Nobody liked it. Nobody liked it. And you, you're sitting here overhauling Armor wars and all I think about is you're putting all this effort into something that no one cares about and Blade is sitting right there. How does that make you feel? Mahershala Ali, you have to feel something. Because they're putting resources into a storyline that no one cares about. Why they do it. I don't know. Maybe they want to. I don't know why they're doing it. It's just. I don't want to speculate on why they're doing it, but they surely are not thinking about you and the Blade character. That's what's more upsetting. [00:43:50] Speaker B: So, couple of points on this latest report. Number one, they're saying the reason it's being overhauled again is, surprise, surprise, because Secret Invasion was so widely panned and poorly received. And obviously there was a lot of Rhodia's scroll groundwork laid in that series that now they are trying to figure out what to do with. So the quote, the scoop is, if and when we ever see this project, which I do not believe we will, it will focus on entirely different things than originally planned. But get this. The projected start date for work on this show. Show is after Secret wars, meaning 2028 is the earliest they. 2028. Okay, so you brought up the Blade point. I. Maybe I'll just leave it as a question. I'm just gonna, like. I'm gonna pull. I'm gonna pull a Jerry Seinfeld. You ever notice. Okay, you ever notice how the projects at Marvel that seem to run into the most trouble and the most delays and can't. Can't seem to figure out where to go, kind of have sort of something in common in terms of who's leading them? Blade Cap 4. How many times was a reshot? Armor Wars, Shang Chi. I'm just saying that the leads of Echo. I'm just observing that the leads of these really troubled projects do seem to have something in common. And I think most of the people viewing can pretty easily figure out what that is. So I'm just asking the question, why does that always seem to happen when. [00:45:38] Speaker A: That'S the case, I'll tell you why. The wrong people are in the room creating this. That's it. The wrong people are in the room creating this. That is the source of the shenanigans happening with these titles. [00:46:07] Speaker B: It, to me, raises Ryan Coogler stock even more when I see all this because obviously he delivered something incredibly special in the Black Panther franchise and seemingly did so in spite of whatever forces are at work with these other projects that seem to always run into major problems. So I don't think this is ever going to happen. And I agree with you. This. This particular one, you know, I. I put Armor wars in the Category because of. Obviously I'm asking the question. This is not a project I really care about that much. And I don't think. To your point, I don't think most people are. I don't think there's a lot of buzz for this. I think if you announced an Armor wars, maybe it's back to a TV show, but. Or movie in 2028 or 2029. I think people will literally be asking the question, why? Who? What? But. But yeah, on that note. [00:47:12] Speaker A: It'S like the MCU is just so far down on my list because of what they've done with certain characters, particularly some of these characters that we've talked about it. And more, even more specifically the Hulk, what they've done to the Hulk. [00:47:31] Speaker B: Plenty of time to talk anti Hulk or talk about Hulk in a couple weeks when Red Hulk is coming. So we're gonna have plenty of reason to have Hulk discussion in a few weeks. [00:47:42] Speaker A: You know, what was the dopest thing about what if that first episode, not the Gods, it was the Godzilla episode, but the beginning when they did the old characters from back in the day and they had them as Avengers, the, You know, the. The Hulk from the 80s or early 90s. I forget they had those characters. That was the dopest part that I. When I saw that, I was like, yo, this is fantastic. But then we got Godzilla, Hulk and all these other Voltron and used to like, yo, really, yo, that was crazy. When I saw that, I'm like, yo, what am I watching? Last thing, Brian, before we go you, did you get a chance to see the Spider man trailer? The new one that they put out. [00:48:28] Speaker B: This show comes out this week. So I think. And the buzz is really good. Really good. Like, I mean, like, people are like, action's incredible. Voice acting is really good. It looks great. People were like, this is like true Spider Man. Like, I know people were a little bit mixed on the first trailer. I'm. I'm excited. I'm excited. [00:48:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I was watching it and my son was glued to the screen and I saw emergency. Awesome. And he was just breaking it down as to who some of the characters that we'll see in some of the takes. And I'm all in to see what this is going to be and look like. Obviously we know what it sort of looks like, but the fact that they went there is also interesting. Interesting. And I can't wait. When is it supposed to come out? [00:49:11] Speaker B: January 29th, this week. [00:49:14] Speaker A: So, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of everything that we've talked about, we talked about a lot. But there seems to be. I don't know. I don't know what the decline would be, obviously, in terms of quality and storytelling. And it's not because they're not trying, is because they don't know what they're dealing with. They don't know what they have in their hands and the right approach for this because they don't have the experiences that some of these characters have experienced, and they don't know how to really tell that story. And instead they give us whatever else that doesn't really connect with any of us. So, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think, and we'll see you next time on the Nerd Gym Report. The show goes on.