The Batman’s Future: Will Reeves and Gunn Clash Over DCU?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd Gen Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. The Batman universe integration dilemma. Brian, there's all we've been getting is conversations about should the Batman be incorporated into James Gunn's dcu? We also have some speculation about the. The villains that will be or the villain that will be included in the Batman to. Matt Reeves seems to have this notion that he'll be able to surprise us, recast or not. This is something that we've been talking about for. Since it was announced that he wasn't going to be recast and whatever happened, happened after that. So they were going to be debating whether the potential recasting of the child will. Will happen because this is just a rumor for it for now. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Yes. But it's more than a rumor in the sense that we know an offer was made. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:05] Speaker B: So. So, so you have to say that at least they made a call. [00:01:09] Speaker A: They are attempting. They're going down the list. Yeah. Also exploring multiverse variants of T'Challa's son as a narrative option is on. Is on the table as well. So they're still trying to figure it out. But we. I, I believe there's only one way to go. HBO the Penguin, future plans and fan theories Shout outs to Colin Farrell for winning that Golden Globe. I did not know they were up against Shogun. Once I knew, I was like, ah, now forget it. They ain't gonna win because Shogun was the show. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:44] Speaker A: During its run, there was some debunking of the, the possibility of. What's this guy's name? Julian Rush's character. Julian Rush was the character of. In Penguin, correct? [00:01:58] Speaker B: Yes. Dr. Rush. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Yes. So there was some speculation as to him possibly being a Scarecrow. That rumor has been debunked. But although Scarecrow to me is a, is a, is a character although explored in Batman the Batman Begins, I don't think they really took full advantage of that character. So it'll be interesting to see what in the hands of Matt Reeves and how that would, how would that come across. There's also early talks of a second season and it's also. And it's connecting to the Batman Part 2. This is something that we've been hoping for that we will get because it only makes sense in order to guarantee that billion dollar box office, which I think will happen. Marvel's Captain America Brave New World box office projections. Brian, when you saw, when you sent me what the projections would possibly be, I was like, really. But I see the possibility of that happening. And then as the writer of the article stated, the second week definitely be a down week, I guess, in severe proportions, depending, obviously, on the reviews of this film. There's also a rumor, new trailer coming out this week, I believe. Right. [00:03:15] Speaker B: I mean, how much more footage do we need? But anyway, we'll get into it, right? [00:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was like, how much you want to show us? [00:03:21] Speaker B: We're getting into agreement. Green Lantern territory. HBO show in terms of promotion. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. There's also a rumor that Kevin Feige has. Is courting. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:33] Speaker A: George Miller to direct the World War Hulk film. And we'll talk about how not interested I am in Hulk. And I don't care what they do, but let's see what they do. Anything else, Ryan? I think. Is that all we're going to be covering? [00:03:50] Speaker B: We got a couple. We got a couple odds and ends. I had a chance to catch up on some bad cinema the past week. So I want to talk about a little bit about Craven. I want to talk a little bit about Red One. You mentioned the Golden Gloves, the Golden Globes. There was some. Some spicy drama in. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Some friends of ours. So we'll get into that. All connects a little bit, but it does connect to the genre. And I do. I do actually do want to talk about Craven, because having seen it now, there were just a couple of things that I sort of was just like filing away for the big picture discussion of the genre. And also as DC is starting to maybe move in the Clay phase or it's the Deathstroke, like they're starting to move in that villain centric direction. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Having seen this movie, I kind of had some notes, and I was just wanted to bounce them off you. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Let's start off with Matt Reeves, the Batman and its possible integration into James Gunn's dcu. So let's. Let's get some context. Right. This official. This was officially announced by James Gunn that the Batman was a part of his Elseworld. And there seems to be some pressure being put on Matt Reeves and James Gunn because I believe that James Gunn's original thought was to do a Batman different from what Matt Reeves is doing. And I want to get into a deeper discussion as to why this can't work or why this could work. I've talked about it quite a bit over the week. If you. If you've been keeping up with the shorts that I've been putting out and if you saw the show. Brian, where are we with. With. With this and what are people saying? What are the. What. What is that world saying about this possibility of Pattinson's or Matt Reeves, I should say, Batman being involved in dcu? [00:05:48] Speaker B: Well, there's no question that something has changed now. I think it's very tbd. I think, as we've discussed, you can go back to our prior shows. I really believe they're leaving the door open pending the success or failure of the Batman Part 2 to make a final determination or push to see whether Robert Pattinson should be the flagship DCU Batman beyond his work with Matt Reeves, or whether they should stick with what seemed to be the original plan to bring in a new actor to debut in Brave and the Bold in live action and carry that Bruce Wayne forward. But we know something has changed, and we've got a lot of quotes here in the past week. I mean, talk about that half second in that episode touched off, like, not just a firestorm of sort of speculation from the Internet circles, but I do think it fed into. When you combine it with the Golden Globes, where Colin Farrell won and where the Penguin was featured, it really kind of blew up, like a broader Batman discussion, which led to, we have new quotes from Matt Reeves himself. We have new quotes from Andy Muschietti, like, think there's things that are different. And I really want to draw people's attention to this. So I'm actually going to rewind the clock on you, Pablo. So this is December 15th, 2023. Three. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:13] Speaker B: James Gunn was asked on threads why Matt Reeves Batman quote was not allowed to exist within the new dcu. End quote. James Gunn's response, his words. Quote, it wasn't an allowed thing. It's Matt's choice, and we respect that. End quote. So at the end of 23, Matt Reeves was labeled as he decided to make it Else. We didn't decide to make it Elseworlds. He insisted. Okay, so that's December of 23. Here is Matt Reeves at the Golden Globes last week. Quote. It really comes down to whether or not it meaning Pattinson makes sense. I think what's been great is it was really a kind of story I wanted to tell. We're calling it the Epic Crime Saga, which is the thrust of what we want to do. And it's been important to be able to play that out. And James and Peter have been really, really great about that and letting us do that. As to what the future brings, I can't really tell you. I have no idea right now. That's clearly an open door. Right? So you have a year ago match choice, no dice. I want to do my own thing. This. I'm not playing ball. That is clearly Matt Reeves at least open to the idea of letting his characters and his world merge with the DCU 14, 13 months later. That's a change. Like, I don't know how else to tell it to you. And I think our belief is what changed was the Penguin. The Penguin changed the conversation around this to where they probably went back to him. And the position was, what is it going to take if we want to do this? Is there a way that's. And Colin Farrell winning is only going to heighten that? [00:09:13] Speaker A: Of course. Here's the thing. This is what I. What I wrestle with, because my position is let Matt Reeves do his thing. [00:09:31] Speaker B: They are. He's saying that even right now, he's saying he's being allowed to do what he wants. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Let him finish his thing. James Gunn, do your DC Brave in a bowl. Because again, what's the rush? What. You can't talk about it right now. Why? Because you have Superman coming out and that is the focal point. You talk Batman. Superman is. I'm sorry, Superman is second tier to Batman. [00:10:01] Speaker B: He already is. You don't see anyone. What are we leading our show with? We were talking about the Superman teaser a couple of weeks ago. We ain't talking about Superman now. [00:10:11] Speaker A: I don't want to talk about. [00:10:13] Speaker B: I mean, you have to talk about this story. It's the big deal. [00:10:16] Speaker A: But that's the problem. I'm of the. I am the proponent of going on with the plans of Matt Reeves, James Gunn, and a possible Batman beyond film, because Batman beyond doesn't fall under those. You know, I'm saying you can do Batman beyond whenever. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Here's the problem that I see with this attempt is that you do this world with James Gunn's Batman. You have to take into consideration what Matt Reeves has done with these villains. It is quite difficult for you to replicate that success with those villains again in that world. But what I say to that is you're leading Batman towards this. Just this Justice League film. Right? That's what you're leading him towards. You don't really necessarily have to incorporate Batman's rogue in this. You have dc, you, Batman, dealing with Damian Wayne, and whatever issues that they have to contend with doesn't have to be any of the ones that Matt Reeves has already explored. He hasn't explored the Joker. So that's a possibility there. You can do Joker in that sense. You can do other ones that haven't been done. But again, you run into the possible problem of having to replicate these characters in that world and it not living up to the sensation I would call that is the Penguin, the. The portrayal of the Riddler and whomever else they get for their next films. That is, those are the problems. I don't see the problems with the confusion of the Batman Batman. You can do whatever kind of Batman. Everybody's gonna go see it, Batman fans. But it is the outside of it is what you have to sort of explore and not try to redo because then you run into that issue of I like the way he did it here better than that. That's not the conversation that you want. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Well, I agree with you. I think Batman's. I think Batman's tapestry is unique again, because of the history of the comics and how deep the bench is in terms of characters that allows you to have multiple of these in a way that Superman could never. That just doesn't work in my mind the same way. Again. If I was laying odds a year ago when I heard that when you hear that Matt Reeves quote, you would have said, like, what are the odds Robert Pattinson suits up as a DCU Batman plus 3000 plus 4000. It would have been remote. It's still not a favorite, an odds on favorite to happen. But if I was asked today, what are the odds today? Plus 600. Like, if the odds have clearly improved, they're just not. I don't think he's the odds on favor. But now let's throw the monkey wrench into this. And this is where this gets a little gnarly. So Andy Muschietti did a full podcast interview about a variety of subjects. And of course, Brave and the bowl comes up. So he had two things to say about it, one of which we reported previously, which was he said the project had been postponed a bit to the point where he was working on another movie. In the meantime, additional comments, and then we'll get to the real twist. He went as far as to say, robert Pattinson will not be like, definitively will not be DC Batman. So the same time that Matt Reeves, the guy who Robert Pattinson's Batman belongs to, is saying, you know, if the story is right, who knows, we might be able to make this work. The guy who supposedly emphasis underline Boldface, supposedly is directing Brave and the Bold says, as everyone knows, the Batman featured in Brave and the Bold will belong to the new DC universe. And it's quite obvious that Matt Reeves Batman is not part of this new Universe. End quote. But then a couple things happened. James Gunn came out and said, brave and the Bold has not been delayed. And then Annie Muschietti said, well, I haven't spoken to James since he started working on Superman. Pablo, I don't think Annie Muschietti is on this film anymore. I just don't think he got the memo. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Didn't you get the memo? Didn't you get the memo? How do you not talk to James Gunn? The guy. The guy in charge. Right. How have you not spoken to him? I'm quite certain that there's nothing to talk about. [00:15:34] Speaker B: That sounds a lot to me like he's called James and there hasn't been a call back because, again, for James to come out publicly and say, no, the project has not been delayed. In response to the director of the project saying it's delayed. Well, we know James Gunn has his job. [00:15:57] Speaker A: Hello? Anybody home? [00:15:59] Speaker B: And Matt Reeves, who we know has his job, is saying, yeah, you know, maybe we're open now to patents and joining the dcu. And the only guy who's still on the island of it's definitely not going to happen is Andy Muschietti. I think the subplot in this is Andy Muschietti has been very gently eased off this project. They haven't made it official yet. [00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah, Brian, at the end of the day, this is all driven. This. This. This possibility all has to do with money. [00:16:28] Speaker B: Oh, that's the thing. See, this is where. If that penguin had bombed again. Rewind the tape. There was friction between Matt Reeves and the studio that was very apparent before this show came out. If this show had been trash, I don't think we're having this conversation. But instead, the show became eventized, and now you got Colin Farrell holding a Golden Globe, and maybe he's gonna be holding an Emmy some, you know, in short order, you got prestige behind this universe. And that's why I speculated what if. Whether it's the villain. Although I think more importantly, what if it is Pattinson, who is a talented actor. What if you get to The Batman Part 2 and, like, people are buzzing about, like, you know what, like, his portrayal of Bruce Wayne in tandem with his portrayal of Batman, like, he should get awards, recognition, like, if that even gets mentioned, whether or not it happens, there will be pressure, commercial pressure, for him to continue in the role in some capacity. That's just the reality. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker B: That's why we're having this conversation. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Because. [00:17:41] Speaker B: I agree with you. Creatively, it's awkward. Creatively, it's Awkward creatively, visually. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Everything about it is just different and it just sits in this own thing that we quite enjoy and we want to see what else. Right. But I understand that Matt Reeves continues to hit all the beats. There is going to be more and more rumblings for more and more and more. And so where does it leave James Gunn and his Batman? [00:18:15] Speaker B: I think the studio does have the utmost respect for Matt Reeves creator. I don't think they want to be in the long term business of Matt Reeves collaborator because of how meticulous he is and how long he takes. I do not think they will accept multi year delays on every Batman project. So I think what they're focused on here is we want Reeves to crush it with his TV shows and with this trilogy. But we kind of, if our pats nails this, we want him back. But we kind of don't want Matt Reeves directing future Batman movies because we can't afford these types of delays. I think there is that like very uncomfortable undercurrent to this too. [00:18:57] Speaker A: We will know when our Pat and corn sweat are in the same room together or in a picture together. [00:19:06] Speaker B: So you said the build to Justice League. I would argue the build should be to that. Whether it's Pattinson or not. I think the build should be toward World's Finest. Forget Justice League for now. Let's get. Because if we get to World's Finest and Aaron Pierre does his job, we've already got the foundation for future Justice League. But get me to World's Finest and fix what happened in BVs in terms of putting them on screen together and then. Then we'll talk about the rest. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean this conversation will not end anytime soon as long as there is no, I guess, plan for. Because right now Batman is a question mark in the dcu. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:54] Speaker A: And as long as that question mark lies there, there is gonna be that speculation and talk and wonder to see what's gonna happen. Because at the end of the day, if you see Superman with Batman, where is Batman? You were doing fine without him until you showed your little half second joint. And now again, everybody's talking. Go back to the episodes where I talked about this. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yo, by the way, what did you make of Reeves comment about the villain? About the villain being. And he said he has gone online and he's read at least some of what people have speculated. So if he says either, he's putting us off the scent. But if he says unexpected, do you think that means he's not doing one of Court of Owls? Because people have Speculated that. Not doing Hush, because people have speculated that and not doing Barry Kyogan, Joker, because a lot of people speculated that. Does that lend credence to your mind to something like Victor Freeze or somebody who's not gotten mentioned? [00:21:00] Speaker A: Victor Freeze is one that comes to mind. Court of Owls, I think, is one that you don't do in just one film. Scarecrow, to me, is one character to sort of dive deeper into the mind of Bruce Wayne and his true fears, which the Batman, the Animated Series did a fantastic job. And in some others films as well, I believe what I think Killian Murphy. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Was sort of the supporting villain, but I mean, he didn't do the psychological exam on Bruce that, yeah, didn't know. [00:21:37] Speaker A: But what they did with Batman Begins is that he was afraid of bats. And that to me, just doesn't work for me. His fear for me that I've accepted is disappointing his father and his legacy and letting him down. That's his biggest fear. And I think it would be. I think Matt Reeves will do a good job in sort of exploring that. But Victor Fries is always. He said it's a difficult character to put off. Brian. [00:22:11] Speaker B: Yes, that's it. I mean, that's the style, right? It's an intellectual scientist who has a real human motivation for what he does and he carries it too far. And this movie being set in winter obviously does sort of lead you in that direction. Now I do have to ask, though, Pharaoh winning the Globe and assuming Pharaoh wins the Emmy, doesn't he have to be for part three, if not the top billed villain, at least getting as much screen time as any villain in that movie? We just, again, we make the commercial discussion. Isn't he forcing Oz to be a bigger and bigger part? You don't think so? You think he can still keep him in the background for two movies if he's the reigning award winner in that role? [00:22:57] Speaker A: Well, I think we have to sort of see what season two holds because remember, at the end of that show we get the signal that to me signals right, that season two Batman is involved in some capacity. And to see his fall in the season I think is better. Better to see that in a season rather than the movie. I think the movies. He's, he's around or whatever. He still has a Batman, still has a deal with him in some respect. But to have it Batman 3B Penguin verse, I don't know if that works for me. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Interesting. But that would force the Penguin to become a Batman show. What you're describing, which I'm not sure that Reeves or Warner Brothers is ready to do yet. I think Batman has to be in the show, but I don't think, as you said, your same argument of, like, the second Batman shows up, he's the news. Right. So if you put him in that show too much, it will be a Batman show. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker B: You can't make Colin Farrell, you can't make him the sidekick if he's got the awards in his pocket for his own show. [00:24:12] Speaker A: I understand that, but you showed the signal. The Batman signal is there. [00:24:19] Speaker B: It means he's on the radar. I mean, that's what it's. He's on the radar. Right. And they said, and Lauren Le Frank said the whole point of it is why. Why our Pats wasn't in this season was because they talked about it, was that he doesn't think enough of Oz as a criminal yet now he does. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Because of that signal. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Now he says he does notice something. He did. [00:24:40] Speaker A: So it'll be interesting to see where they take that and how that leads into Batman 2, which is, I think, the plan. So, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of Patentson's integration into the dcu. What's up? [00:24:55] Speaker B: And if you, if you. If any of you has a direct line to any Muschietti, I'll let you guys be the ones to break the news to him. Yeah. [00:25:02] Speaker A: Who will not be emperor. [00:25:05] Speaker B: All signs to me point to Brave and the Bold is going to have a new director in the not too distant future. [00:25:10] Speaker A: Do you want to segue into that? [00:25:11] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Andy Muskete, the director of Flash, made some comments about why the movie did not. What didn't work for people, and why. [00:25:22] Speaker B: He put on a Sony jersey when he made his comments, apparently. But anyway, go ahead. [00:25:26] Speaker A: He called Sony. Hey, what did you say? How should I say? How can I make this better? So he said he made some comments about why this movie didn't succeed. And listen, my only interest and this interest was they were doing a play on Flashpoint Paradox, right? That's what it's called. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Flashpoint. Yeah, Flashpoint Paradox animated film. I think one of the best animated, yes, great movies that involves DC characters. Just plain fantastic. This one I see over and over again. That's how good it is. So I was curious about that. I wasn't interested in the lead actor, Ezra Miller, playing the role because I wasn't too fond of his portrayal in Zack Snyder's World. And I just felt like it wouldn't carry over and it did it. Nobody was interested. But talk about Brian, what he said that has people looking at him sideways. [00:26:39] Speaker B: Quote, among all the other reasons, because it wasn't a movie that appealed to all four quadrants. It failed at that. When you spend $200 million making a movie, Warner Brothers wants to bring even your grandmother to the theater. And I found out in private conversations that a lot of people just don't care about the Flash as a character, particularly the two female quadrants. There are a lot of women not interested in the Flash as a character. All that is going against the film. I've learned. End quote. [00:27:10] Speaker A: What, What. [00:27:13] Speaker B: Let's bring in Aaron Pierre. Remember, like, Red One, like all these movies, they. They focus on, basically, it's like age, you know, gender, ethnicity. Right. They're trying to traverse all of these buckets to get the maximum box office. Okay. But the reason why I made the Sony analogy is I love it when. When a movie doesn't work out the way they're intended that it was intended to, and the people who are involved with it immediately pull the Spider man and point the finger at everyone else or each other, but will never point the finger at anything they did that might have contributed to why the movie didn't hit. Now, I think in this particular case, I don't know what your thoughts are. There is a piece of the failure of this. There are two pieces of the failure of this movie that were not in any Muschietti's control, if I'm being fair. So number one is remnant of the Snyder verse. We saw every remnant of the Snyder verse failed at the box office once Warner Brothers announced the Snyder verse was going away. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:14] Speaker B: So that's not anything to do with what he did. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker B: The second thing is he didn't cast Ezra Miller. He got handed Ezra Miller. Now, you could argue a different director might have gone to war with the studio once Ezra Miller's problems came out. And you can. We can debate that. The cost of that, the cost benefit of what happened. They were kind of stuck. But the fact remains, Zack Snyder chose Ezra Miller to be Barry Allen and Bed Flash. Andy Muschietti did not. So those two things I will say are not in his control. But none of that changes the fact that the story isn't all that well executed as an adaptation of the Flashpoint paradox. And he. He gets a decent performance from Keaton and he gets a pretty good performance from, ironically, Sasha Calle, the female character in the movie. So I don't know what he's talking about because I Would argue maybe the best role in the movie went to the female lead of the movie. But even so, he wasn't able to make a compelling story, start to finish, to make people care. And I don't think that has anything to do with the Flash as a comic book character. And how can you say that when the most successful TV adaptation. [00:29:31] Speaker A: There you go. [00:29:32] Speaker B: In the CW universe by far was Grant Gustin's Flash, which ran for nine years, had great viewership across women, and he was generally regarded as excellent in the role. [00:29:45] Speaker A: I think I tapped out after We Are the Flash. That's when I tapped out. [00:29:50] Speaker B: He got a little game with all the speedsters running around and, like, you know, like the retcons and, like, I don't know how many ways Tom Kavanaugh could come back as Harrison Wells or not Harrison Wells. But listen, the point is, this show was a huge success. It was more successful than Arrow. It was more successful than anything else they had made, except arguably Smallville. But, like, people watched women, watched girls, watched, like, so not the Flash, man. [00:30:18] Speaker A: It's not. And for him to say that he is not a very popular. That's crazy. Flash is one of the most beloved characters of the Justice League. Like, if you watch Justice League, the Animated Series, there's a. There's a couple. There's an episode where he, I think, almost is taken into the Speed Force and disappears or something like that. And they had to. You see Batman trying to, you know, Doing it. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Yes. You know what I'm saying? [00:30:44] Speaker B: So now, that was Wally west, technically, but Michael Rosenbaum voiced him. And to your point, again, small sample size. That show and Michael Rosenbaum's humor in that writing, that's the reason why my daughter's favorite comic book character is the Flash. [00:30:58] Speaker A: I used to, like, I loved the Flash when I was a kid. [00:31:01] Speaker B: So I don't know who his private conversations were with, but I don't think they were informed about what was going on here. [00:31:11] Speaker A: I think at that level, Brian, he's talking to execs and people who don't know the character, Brian. That's all it is to me. They're talking to people that don't know. [00:31:20] Speaker B: At the end of the day, the story wasn't great. But, look, let's not avoid the elephant in the room. Ezra Miller was a problem. He was a problem off the camera, and he wasn't very good on the camera. [00:31:31] Speaker A: You got this dude choking out a girl on live TV or whatever on. On video, and you got another guy running away from somebody. And he's exiled. I'm talking about Jonathan Majors. That stuff right there just doesn't. The, The, The. The lens, it doesn't look good. [00:31:54] Speaker B: No. [00:31:55] Speaker A: So, yes. From Jump street as well as. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. If you want to make an argument. I mean, I'm not saying it's true, but if you want to make an argument that some of the female viewership got turned off, I would argue they got turned off a lot more by that than they did by the Flash as a conceptual character on the screen. [00:32:10] Speaker A: All I got. All you got to do is Flash that video in front of everybody, and that's it. You've lost them. [00:32:15] Speaker B: And we talked about at length, should they recast? Should they reshoot the movie? What should they do with it? What should they do with it? Right. And they chose the path. They did. They went full on for the theatrical release. And they lost, like, a difficult spot. They were so far into it. But I also don't think even had Ezra Miller not done any of those bizarre things and, you know, unfortunate things off camera, he wasn't very good. His interpretation of Barry Allen from the very beginning, I never found convincing or that appealing. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Sorry, I'm right. I'm right there. [00:32:48] Speaker B: To me, like, Zach was like. He was either like a 10 or a 1 when it came to casting. Yes, he absolutely crushed a few of his casting decisions, but the ones he missed, like, as. Like Ezra Miller, Jesse Eisenberg, when he missed, he missed by a mile. [00:33:05] Speaker A: Do you think Jason Momoa was a good cast for Aquaman? [00:33:09] Speaker B: I mean, he wasn't my Aquaman. But when. I mean, I can't. I mean, his two movies combined made $1.7 billion. So I can't really say he was a terrible choice. I mean, I guess that's what I would say to you commercially. He. It clearly worked. But he's not my Arthur Curry. That was Aquaman. Cross with a little bit of Lobo to me. [00:33:30] Speaker A: And hence my concern. When we see him as Lobo, will he. Will it be similar to how he played Aquaman? I don't know. Let's see. But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you get, what you guys think of Andy Muschietti's claim that the Flash isn't a popular character and the women didn't want to come out and see him. And what this. We've already pointed out a few things as to why that could have been the case. It had nothing to do with the Flash. Yeah. [00:34:01] Speaker B: And that's the thing is, like, you know, even the Argument about four quadrants and spending money. It's like, listen, it just dodges the issue. Make a good movie. Like, there's plenty of R rated movies that aren't by definition can't appeal to part all parts of the four quadrants. But they do phenomenally well because they're good movies. They're compelling movies. Like again, this is the Sony arguments. Like Sony trying to out there being like, this movie was good. You guys are just too stupid. We were told the Flash was the greatest comic book movie of all, all time by the studio that made it. [00:34:40] Speaker A: That. That brings me back to that line that you said when Gladiator come out. We're going to see if really Scott was lying about this being the greatest movie he's ever done. But that should have been asked. When executives talk about this movie being the greatest movie thing you've ever seen, all this smoke. Those are the people we have to sort of ignore and not even think about what they think about a movie. Because they're looking at, they're seeing it from beginning to end. The production, the creation of this film. They're not seeing the end result. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. It's goggles. And they can't, they can't see it objectively. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And all they're looking at is money and they're trying to get your money. So. [00:35:37] Speaker B: And there's an arrogance, I think there's an arrogance to the Flash just to Black Adam as we saw to, you know, to the Sony verse. Like they're like, we're gonna slap a comic book label on this. And because of the work largely that Marvel and to a lesser extent DC has done and somewhat Sony with Spider man over the last 15 years, we gonna assume that we've got your money. We don't have to earn it with each film. [00:35:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know the conversation below what you guys think of his comments regarding the Flash and the Flash character. He's not a popular character. That's crazy talk. [00:36:11] Speaker B: See it and I hear that stuff and I'm like, we're already got questions about you as a brave and the bold director. And I hear this and I read this and I'm like, I don't need, I don't need more evidence like you. He did a great job with it back in the day. But like, this ain't for this. This ain't for you. [00:36:26] Speaker A: But that's it. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Fair enough. Fair point. [00:36:32] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:36:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Chadwick Boseman and the recasting of T'Challa. So let's reflect first on his portrayal of T'Challa. Brian. This was a movie that had many, many people hyped. There was a mission for this movie to prove the naysayers wrong. But they wanted to tell a great story and they did. And a great performance by Chadwick Boseman got everybody, not even just him, but the whole cast, the whole concept of it got everybody to come out to go see this film. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:15] Speaker A: And then unfortunately, he was taken away from us. And the choice of not recasting him may have hurt its potential at the box office and caused a lot of. I guess there was a lot of back and forth as to what to do. And they finally made their choice. And it was an emotional choice. It wasn't a business choice. I understand that. I was talking to Melvin Taylor, who is a good friend of mine. He works on a lot of production sets and I don't know if you ever watch Manifest. Have you watched Manifest before? [00:37:58] Speaker B: No. The TV show? No. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Yeah, he's on that show. He's in a couple of episodes. But he said he respects them more for that decision. I understand the reasoning behind that decision. If it were me and I'm working with Chadwick and he left an impression on everyone, it would be difficult to replace him. But at the end of the day, we have to move on. And my feelings towards it is I look at past portrayals of other characters or other actors or actresses who have played a character and, you know, they've passed and they get recasted. William Hurt. Nobody said, I get it, Brian. It's not kind of the same, but. [00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah, the weight's different. Yeah. [00:39:12] Speaker A: Again, James Bond, Batman. How many different Batmans have we got? For me is a bit more personal. It's like, okay, Chadwick is gone. We had to. For me, I you find a replacement. Because to me, what's important to me is Black Panther the character and what he stands for. Brian. And I think in honoring Chadwick, he will always have the title of being the first Black Panther. It shouldn't be the only one. And they should have made a decision to move on in casting a t'challa and still honoring him. And now we have come to this point that we're talking about recasting T'Challa or continuing with the T'Challa's Junior story into Black Panther 3. What are your thoughts, Brian? [00:40:14] Speaker B: So I think so. Odd statement. I think by the time Ryan Coogler's almost certainly celebrated and almost certainly Academy Award winning career is done, I don't think we'll look back on Wakanda Forever as one of the best movies he ever did in absolute terms. But I will regard it as one of the most impressive feats that he pulled off, because I think if once you make the decision that they made, that he made, other than, to me, the inexplicable emphasis on Ironheart, other than that, I think that movie is way better than it should be, considering the centerpiece is not there the. At all. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:12] Speaker B: And I was trying to think of, like, if you took Christopher reeve between Superman 1 and 2 or, like, right before they were about to shoot Superman to, like, there's no way that that works. And you're like, hey, I'm going to build a sequel with no Superman. Call it a Superman movie. Yeah, Not a chance in hell. That's a good movie. If Christian Bale had passed instead of Heath Ledger coming off the Dark Knight and they tried to finish that trilogy without including a physical Batman, Azrael, all of a sudden for. There's no way that that move. There's no way. That's what I'm saying. The fact that that movie is actually good to the level it is is a testament to how great Ryan Coogler actually is at this. But there's no question in that movie. And I'm convinced if I could get Cougar in a room, he would tell me he did it by design. There are definitely several scenes in that movie which feel lopsided. And I'm convinced that's by design. I'm convinced it's to make you hurt in that moment that Chadwick is not there opposite 10 Acuerta, that he's not there opposite Queen Raymond. He's doing that, like, very. But you're correct, commercially, that cost them a couple hundred million dollars. There's no question, like, the decision not to have a T'Challa continuation, as, you know, as worthy as Shuri might have been based upon, you know, what Letitia Wright had done with the character previously. I mean, it's. It isn't the same. And it isn't the same, given how the storyline had been set up, for sure. So you and I, we talked about this at the time, this. To do it or not to do it. I think you and I were adamant it would happen at some point, and it would. This was inevitable we would get here. And I think Coogler knew it in the sense of why include the sun at all? Unless you clearly were acknowledging I did this movie as the tribute to his memory. But as you said, the legacy of the Character is bigger than any one actor and that has to go on. And so putting the sun in the credits scene 100% to me, was signaling this was coming. [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:24] Speaker B: And here we are. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Yes. So I don't know how much time will have passed. I don't know if there's some rumor about doing a Black Panther from alternate universe, whatever. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Right? Hang on. Before we even do this easy get out of jail free card for this, because this movie is not going to come out before Secret wars, most likely. If they're hitting the reset button in Secret wars, why the hell they have the carte blanche to change the. They can tell us it's six years later. Who the hell cares? Yeah, they can tell us it's 12 years later. They can make him as old or as young as they want to make the sun. And it's believable if we assume the whole universe is getting reset. I don't think they're constrained on that front. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Brian. I've already stated my choice for. For Black Panther. Abu Bakr Saleem. I'm gonna make my pitch again. He's a British actor. He's actually a video game developer, Brian. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:44:38] Speaker A: Yeah. His father was a big gamer, I believe, and he passed away about a decade ago. And I guess that was the impression he left on him that he, you know, really loved video gaming. He was father in HBO Max science fiction series, Raised by Wolves. I don't know if you saw that. I saw a couple of episodes, but it was just. I don't know, it was just. [00:44:58] Speaker B: That was a really Scott series, I think. Or he was the producer of it. Yeah. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Yes. He's in Game of Thrones. He's 32. He's from. He's a British actor. He from Kenyan descent. And I think he, I believe, to me, just looks like a black panther. He just looks like a prince, a king, the leader of a nation. There has been talk of individuals that have been offered the role and they've turned it down. I know there was an article that you sent me, Brian, and I that I actually, you know, when I read it and I had sent you something regarding dams and Idris turning it down. And it was in that article I heard this from a conversation I had with someone that they know, that they heard through the grapevine, through their connections in that world, that he was like, damson interest was like, no, because of. He has his F1 movie coming out and he's on a path that he does not want to throw a monkey wrench in because of this film. Coming out, and there's just too much pressure for him to take over or for any of these other guys that want to possibly. I mean, this is just not him. There's been others that they've been offered. They've gone down the list, Brian. They're looking at their list of African American actors and just calling them up one by one if they're going to do. And no, it shouldn't be out as Hodge. No, it shouldn't be John David Washington. [00:46:52] Speaker B: No, it's not. It's not gonna be those guys. [00:46:55] Speaker A: I hope not. But these are the names that you hear John Campion talk about on his show all the time. And it's like, dude, can we get somebody new? Can you look at other people? Instead of the same people that. The same list that these executives have or these studios have, there's other people. I want somebody new. We should get this new. We should be in awe of this Black Panther. We shouldn't be like, oh, is this guy who is. No, this is Black Panther. This is. We don't know who this guy is, but he looks great. We need to look at somebody new. Guys, stop looking at the same dudes. I like Aldous Hyde. I don't know if you've seen Cross. [00:47:41] Speaker B: No, I'm. [00:47:42] Speaker A: Check it out, check it out, check it out. It's very good. The Old Spice commercial dude is in there, and he. And he does fantastic. He's a big dude. I didn't realize how big that dude was. And he did an amazing job. There's a lot of possibilities here. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Sure. [00:47:59] Speaker A: I don't know which way they're going, if they're going to use an alternate T'Challa. Like you said, since we started from scratch, why are we going to continue telling these stories? But from Ryan Cool's perspective is like, I don't know if I want to start from scratch. Right. [00:48:17] Speaker B: I would rather age up the sun. Personally, I think, to me, if you are concerned about honoring or dishonoring Chadwick's memory, but also, I think, in my mind, Wakanda Forever as a film spent a lot of time on the funeral. On the funeral scene. Spent a lot of time in that movie about the emotions of coming to grips with not having the King of Wakanda on the throne. I think it would be a little bit cheapening to all of a sudden have actual t'challa, like, somehow magically reappear and be like, oh, he wasn't actually dead. Or an alt universe. T'challa kind of splice in and Take over. I'd much rather have it be the sun age up, because then you're kind of still leaving that void, that generational void, and then you're establishing a new legacy in the suit and in. And in the role. And I think that, to me, is a better. Is a better balance. What I do think is interesting about the Idris rumor, and, you know, you're pushing Saleem, who, incidentally, his voice is acclaimed because he's the voice of at least one of the Assassin's Creed. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Games. He is the assassin. Okay. I know people, apparently, people loved his vocal work in that game. I'm not a aficionado of those games, but he worked on the game, and then apparently he voiced the character Dams. And Idris is British. He's part British, part Nigerian. That was a significant rumor to me, because I was curious, if they ever did this, would they limit themselves to an American actor? And clearly they're not. I'm not saying they should. I'm just saying because Chadwick was like, were they going to sort of only limit it to people born in the United States for the role? And apparently the answer is no. So, yeah. So it's a worldwide search for. For this. For this role. But I, you know, I. I disagree with the fans who are kind of upset and somehow thinking that this is, like, them walking on Chadwick Boseman's grave. I don't see it that way. I don't see it that way at all. Like, it's like he would want the character to. [00:50:21] Speaker A: To live on. I need to hear that. I guess I need to hear that. Take as to why you feel. And let us know in the comment section below. Why do you feel that this is somehow disrespecting Chadwick Boseman's legacy as Black Panther? Why? Chadwick Boseman wasn't just Black Panther. Jadwick Bowman was loved because he was. He. He was who he was with everyone. [00:50:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:57] Speaker A: That's his legacy. He played a lot of prominent roles. Are those roles never going to be played by someone else? Possibly not. I don't know. But still, he just wasn't that. [00:51:09] Speaker B: I would also submit that you draw attention to his work and you draw attention to his work in the role by having the character reappear. Like, think about it. Every time we see a new iteration of the Joker, Heath Ledger's name comes up. If we never had another Joker, there's a risk we would forget. But because we see other iterations, it causes everyone to remember how great Ledger was as the Joker. And so you're honoring him by doing that. [00:51:41] Speaker A: The first Black Panther, man. The first Black Panther successful Black Panther. Unfortunately, what happened, happened. I understand the reasonings behind what was done, but we've come to a point now where we need to move forward and we need to have our Black Panther, our Black King. And if you do it, and if. [00:52:05] Speaker B: You do it with the sun, who barely got to. Who in the context of the film, barely got to know his father, you have an on screen opportunity to sing his legacy. Think about it. You're giving, you know, whether it's Raymond or Shuri or whoever it is, I should be lost. Raymond, I'm sorry, but in the, in the astral plane, sorry. If you're giving these characters an opportunity to wax poetic to the son about the father he barely knew, that is honoring Chadwick Boseman in a very direct way, even though he's not on screen. So I am, I am for this. I hope it happens. I hope they go bold with it. I, you know, whether it's your guy or not, I think he does look the part. But I like the idea of someone. Again, I do think these roles tend to be served better when they are not shackled by a long resume or a long identification that we already have with the actor. It makes it a little bit easier to kind of just disappear in the role and really inhabit it. So, yes, I do hope it is a relative unknown. [00:53:10] Speaker A: Your thoughts on. I forget her name. She was the lead in Wicked. Sort of Champion or wanting. [00:53:18] Speaker B: Cynthia Yorivo wanting to be Storm. Yeah, I don't hate it. I don't hate it. [00:53:25] Speaker A: I don't like it. [00:53:27] Speaker B: I mean, it's not my favorite, but I mean, I can. [00:53:29] Speaker A: I mean, to me, the Wanda Wise fits the bill. [00:53:32] Speaker B: Let's put it this way. I can live. I think I can better live with Cynthia Erivo as Storm than I can with Ariana Grande as the lead. The next Matrix movie. Listen, I mean, you're gonna have a lot of people. That's another part that obviously is very charged and very important to people. The storm, when we do get the storm casting. That's a big one. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Oh, yes. That is a big one. That is a huge one, I think. And, and I think people are going to be looking out for the Aaron Pierre situation. We can't have a repeat. [00:54:03] Speaker B: The Halle Berry. Yeah. [00:54:06] Speaker A: Was with the Halle Berry one. Was there outcry for that? [00:54:10] Speaker B: Well, less so. But I mean, the climate of that has changed. Right. I mean, I think people are more attuned to that and notice that more. [00:54:19] Speaker A: Nobody said, I want Terence Howard got his. And roadie is black. Black in the comic book, you know, and nobody said nothing. [00:54:29] Speaker B: That would kind of sorted itself out. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Right. So for me, this Aaron Pierre stuff was just went. It was just a little bit overboard for me. But let's see what they do, man. Let's see if they make the right decisions and in the right. If the right people are in the room to make that decision. That's what's key there. Right? Are the right people in the room making these decisions as of late? We can say apparently not. And I'm talking about what if. I'm talking about everything. A lot of the things that Marvel has done as of late that we said, no, this sucks. This is whack. [00:55:04] Speaker B: I do think whatever happened with Ironheart, something is what went amiss there in terms of how it was executed in the movie. But I can't tell where the line is between what he was pushing, what the studio was pushing in terms of getting that TV show set up that he is involved in. But, I mean, he's still one of the best directors we have working. And if he supposedly he is, basically my suspicion is it'll pretty much be him and Kevin who ultimately are going to make this call. And I'm like, you know what? That's about as good as we got right now for. For people in the room. So I'll, I'll, I'll. I'll roll with their. With their instincts, but I'll be very excited. I guess the question we would ask now is, you know, obviously they're working through this, but the timing of this, I mean, is this something they intend to kind of get in front of us by Comic Con this year? Is this something more that they want to wait till, you know, 26? I'd be curious as to how soon, because I don't think it's quite to the scale of. Well, I shouldn't say that it's in the same class. To me as. We were just having a discussion about announcing DCU Batman. I think because of what happened with Chadwick passing, this is a huge deal. Like the day they announced this. This headline is like. [00:56:15] Speaker A: Definitely is. Yeah. So let us know in the comment section below what you guys think about whether or not they should recast, which had recast the character of T'Challa, which I don't think they're going to be doing. I think they're actually going to age up T'Challa Jr. As you said, alt. [00:56:37] Speaker B: Universe, T'CHALLA is the route. I have not heard anyone saying they're going to try to retcon the passing of Earth 616, which Kevin has said he would never do. [00:56:48] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. [00:56:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:50] Speaker A: So yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of that whole situation and how they should go about it. Brave New world aims for 81 to 107 million dollar debut. At first glance, you scoff at it. Now I'm sort of thinking, Brian, the curiosity for people to see what this movie is based on, the its trials and tribulations, there's curiosity to see what this will be based on his history. Your thoughts, Brian? [00:57:28] Speaker B: Look, I mean this is long range projection, but we're getting inside of long range. We're only about a month away at this point. But the opening three day weekend projection of 81 to 107 million dollars. It's interesting, it doesn't say specifically whether this is US or global. I'm assuming it's US, but then sort of saying that the. They're kind of looking for the total gross to be around 240us. So then you're kind of looking at. Okay, so if that's the case, which I think is a little high, I think it'll be short of that. But if it's 240us and then you figure like internationally maybe it's like another 240, you know, 300 or whatever. But then you layer that against what they would have spent on this movie with the reshoots and the marketing, like this is a loss like that. That's not, that number is not high enough. That number is not high enough. And when you consider that, look, I realize it's not fair to. This is not fair to Anthony Mackie. But like Captain America 3, last time we saw a Cap led film in civil War was a billion dollar movie. So if you go from a billion, 1.1 billion and your next effort is 200, 500, but the movie costs more, that's not good. But then you see all the things that we've talked about. So they're saying, you know, anticipation of the film does not seem high. And the reports of the numerous reshoots and behind the scenes adjustments are not helping the film's cost. I mean, yeah, that's exactly what we've been saying. And that's why I think like for them to be putting out another full trailer this late in the game when they've already shown us giving away Red Hulk, shown us as much of the action as They've shown us that is a red flag to me. That tells you they feel compelled to give away more and more of the set pieces and more and more of the big moments in the film, in the promotional material to try to get you to the box office. [00:59:33] Speaker A: Based on the constant test screenings that we've heard, people just not liking it and calling it boring just tells us that what we're gonna get is the result of them having to release a movie that they've. They have to release already because we're ready. We can't delay this any longer. And we're gonna get the result of a failed effort to make this movie good. And we're gonna see the. What? This movie. I'm curious to see what this movie is, Brian. I'm. I gotta be honest. I'm not excited. I'm just curious. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so. But for you, unless something shocking comes out of your first viewing, you're not going back. [01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:17] Speaker B: And that's the thing, right? You, like, you go to Winter Soldier, you're like, great, I'll go to. I'll go tomorrow. I'll go to the next show. Like, I'll be back. You know, that's the thing with these. With these movies to really work. That's what they need. I don't see it with this film. And, you know, I gotta say something. I was. I was at the movies a couple of times in the past week, and I got my first, like, dose of something we've talked about, which is how crowded 2025 is. I was sitting. I was actually just watching den of thieves 2. I was just sitting there watching den of thieves 2. And the trailers are going by. There were three trailers in a row, Pablo, for movies that came out on the same weekend. Like, three trailers in a row that were like, same weekend. I think it was at the end of February. And it just. And what? They weren't big movies, but it just underscored to me, like, every weekend this year is going to be a knife fight. There's going to be movies everywhere. If your movie does not measure up, people are not going to stay with you or go because there are so many places for them to put their dollars. This year, unlike last year, a couple. [01:01:24] Speaker A: Of things could happen here. They're gonna be movies that are good, movies that are gonna flop monetarily because not enough people are interested in it, or there's just a lot more stuff to see that the attention span for it for that movie won't be as huge as for this movie. Sort of situation. [01:01:45] Speaker B: Yes. I think there will definitely be movies that fall through the cracks this year or movies that definitely disappoint on opening weekend because another movie has hit and is carrying more audience than expected. There's just no margin for error. [01:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:59] Speaker B: Like, I even look at, like, what happened with Mufasa, where it's like, you know, between Sonic and Moana and Wicked, like, there wasn't room for Mufasa. But then you look now, a couple weeks out, Mufasa's audience is not going down. So people are like, oh, right, I can go see that. So there's a movie that, like, the critical reception wasn't even that great, but because it's Lion King ip, people did come back to it when they had some space. There's no space in 2025. You don't get, like, week five and six to come back around, because by the time you get to week five. [01:02:29] Speaker A: And six, it's like some new stuff. Yeah. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Jurassic World is out, or Superman is out or Fantastic Four is out. I mean, your attention is just being constantly diverted. But it just struck me, I was like, I couldn't remember last time I'd seen that many trailers in a row where it was just like, this weekend, next weekend, they're all at the same time. [01:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm telling you, that July, Superman, a Fantastic Four. I'm very interested in seeing how that turns out. Because you're saying. So I'm actually, again, the Superman make a billion dollars. [01:02:58] Speaker B: No. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Wow. Wow. [01:03:03] Speaker B: I don't think either Fantastic Four, Superman get that close. [01:03:08] Speaker A: I don't think so with Fantastic Four either. [01:03:10] Speaker B: I think Superman makes more than Fantastic Four. But I. But if I had a hand, I would say, like, Superman, I'd set the line at 700. Fantastic Four, I'd set the line at, like, 500. [01:03:20] Speaker A: I'm gonna go against Brian. I'm gonna say, yes, it does make a bit in Dallas. So we'll see. We'll see. Hopefully, my Super Mario Brothers. [01:03:29] Speaker B: I hope you're right. You absolutely nailed that one. [01:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think. I think because, I mean, the only person that can spoil is Batman, which we not even think. You know what I'm saying? [01:03:43] Speaker B: Brian and the dinosaurs, though, because they come out the week before. Telling you, you can't discount that, friend. I mean, that franchise is terrible. Movies make a billion dollars. Dominion made a billion dollars. That's a horrible movie. Made a billion dollars. Like, World is an average movie. 1.6. Fallen Kingdom is a bad movie. 1.3. Like, people like their dinosaurs I mean, that's in the same month as both of these movies, and it's the same audience. [01:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. By the way, what was. How was then a thief too? [01:04:20] Speaker B: I feel like Gerard Butler and Jason Statham have become like my B action movie guys. If they're making a movie, I kind of know what I'm gonna get. It's not gonna be a classic, but it's gonna be an easy watch. It's gonna hit the notes for me. Butler is really good as this character, this sort of, like, drunk, unfaithful, unscrupulous cop. He's really good at this character. And O'Shea Jackson is actually pretty good as, like, the side saddle. He's more of the lead and the co lead in this movie. Look, this movie is clearly riffing and ripping off Heat, ripping off the town. Like, that's what it is. But it does it in a way that, like, feels like homage as opposed to just pure plagiarism. And so I typically enjoy these movies. And it's funny. There was a trailer for a new Statham action movie coming in March called A Working man, and I was like, yep, this looks like my kind of Jason movie for the 27th time that I will watch. So, you know, I, I think I, I. These are the classic, like, two and a half star movies that you don't necessarily have to go to the theater to see, but, like, if you're on an airplane and you need a couple hours to kill and you want to be entertained, you're in good hands. [01:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:29] Speaker B: With Gerard Butler and Jason Stale. [01:05:32] Speaker A: So you went to the movies. You saw Red One and you saw. [01:05:36] Speaker B: I didn't see that in the theater. We streamed that one. [01:05:38] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay, okay. [01:05:39] Speaker B: We streamed that one at home. And I saw Craven in the theater. Oh, I didn't go to see that. [01:05:44] Speaker A: When you told me you saw it in the theater, I'm like, it's in the theater still. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Yes. I was impressed that I could find a find. [01:05:49] Speaker A: So tell me your thoughts. [01:05:53] Speaker B: For Sony to tell us that, A, this movie was good, and B, we heard all this buzz that they thought it was, like, so good for it came out like, no, this movie's not good. [01:06:07] Speaker A: Wow. [01:06:08] Speaker B: At all. Okay. So I got to give you a couple of things that I put in the notes because I was like, I got to go back to Pablo with this, because we might get Clayface, might get Deathstroke, might get Bane. I get all these other characters. They're villain centered. Okay. So I started thinking about, like, what are the things that absolutely cannot happen if you're going to do a movie like this. So number one, you cannot miss in casting your star. We knew they missed when they put Aaron Taylor Johnson this role because we know what Sergey Kravinoff is supposed to look and sound like from the way the comics describes and draws him. And Aaron Taylor Johnson is not yet. Yeah, but you know, our discussion of accents. I felt insulted. He didn't even try. [01:06:53] Speaker A: How does that feel? [01:07:02] Speaker B: He used his Aaron Taylor Johnson high pitched American voice. Except for a few subtitled Russian quotes at the beginning. And that alone to me is like, this particular character has to sound believable. [01:07:18] Speaker A: You lose millions and millions of dollars just because of an accent, just because of a look, just because of casting appropriately. Just because you thought you had a star in Aaron Taylor Johnson and that bit. And you believe that his name and his involvement will get you to a successful film. Possibly. [01:07:38] Speaker B: This guy is a formidable hunter. He is, a pun intended, a bear of a man and he's a bear of a Russian. To have a British guy hawking an American accent. They didn't even have him do his British accent. They had him do co opt an American accent and have it be. Have his voice be a tenor. Was already like, with the second I heard him do it, I was like, I'm out. He doesn't look big enough. He. He worked out really hard. I'll give him that. His physique looks great, but he's just not blessed with the kind of physique. This is not a Kravin. Off to me is not like a. Yeah, he's not that. He's a physically imposing big dude. [01:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:29] Speaker B: That's part of what the contrast is when he eventually hunts Spider Man. To me. [01:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:34] Speaker B: So that didn't work. So it's already like, the star is not working for me. That's number one. So number two is. I think I've decided I don't need villain backstory. I'm out. This movie has like a 20 minute childhood sequence of Craven and his brother and Russell Crowe is the father. I think it. I don't know, I'm just like, why? Like, I think you can tell a credible villain centric story arc without showing me every step of how he got there. Reference it in the dialogue. Reference it through what people, how people regard the character. Make it power of suggestion. Why do I have to see him as a kid? To me it devalues what he becomes later. As a hunter. He's less scary, he's less formidable. You're trying to make him more. You're trying to humanize him, make him more sympathetic. I don't care about that. I care about him as a foe of Spider man, if that's what you're trying to sell me in the end, which is what he has to be showing him as like, this well meaning kid who's corrupted by his kind of diabolical dad. That's useless to me. [01:09:47] Speaker A: I. [01:09:48] Speaker B: So I hope they don't do that in the villain projects going forward. Just let them be villainous. Let him be villainous. Happen to be on the right side of the law as part of being villainous. Great. But, like, who? [01:10:01] Speaker A: I don't. [01:10:01] Speaker B: I didn't need like 20 minutes. The movie ground to a halt. And I was just like, this is horrible. [01:10:08] Speaker A: Wow. [01:10:09] Speaker B: So that was number two. Okay. It's not the worst part of the movie. [01:10:12] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, I heard that was horrible. [01:10:17] Speaker B: It's bizarre. The CGI doesn't work. I don't think this character is like a great translation for the screen. The reason why I don't say it's the worst part of the movie is because I feel like Alessandro Navola understood, weirdly, kind of understood what was going on around him in the movie, and he understood a character that basically has no depth. [01:10:45] Speaker A: Right. [01:10:45] Speaker B: The rhino is basically like a mindless brute in the comics. [01:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:10:51] Speaker B: So he said. This was an instance where I think the guy did the research and was like, this doesn't work as a movie character. So I have to do something over the top crazy to try and convince you that this character could do anything relevant. And I will say this, his performance is bizarre, but I kind of liked watching it. At least he's riffing, he's doing something here to make me pay attention. Even though this is not the rhino in the classic sense, the CGI at the end is tough. I mean, that's one where it's just like they're trying to put these scales on him and give him a horn and, like. And it's like, you know, as bad as the Giamatti suit was in Amazing Spider Man 2, like, this one is probably the other end of the spectrum. Like, it's too fleshy, too scaly, and kind of ultimately, you know, also doesn't work. But yeah, I said Navola's performance, to me is the one I would probably tell you was the best. Just from the standpoint of at least when he was on screen. I was just curious to see what he was gonna say and do next. Yeah, it made me think he could be a villain somewhere else in either Marvel or dc maybe. That's the best way to put it. I was like, this is a guy whose name you should keep in the Rolodex for another part. [01:12:07] Speaker A: Okay, okay. What's his name? [01:12:10] Speaker B: Alessandro Navola. You probably best. Most people probably best remember him as Pollux Troy and faced off. He's the other brother. He's the hat. He's like the computer expert. [01:12:19] Speaker A: Ah, wow. Because he looked real young in that one. So. Yes. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. [01:12:25] Speaker B: But this is not a good movie. This is a terrible movie. And by the time he gets his comics accurate jacket at the end of the movie, he just looks ridiculous. That. That shot on the poster of that they had is actually in the movie. It's like the last scene of the movie and I'm like, this is utterly ludicrous. [01:12:43] Speaker A: They did a black Adam. That was a black Adam move because he did the shot of him sitting. [01:12:48] Speaker B: Down at the end and just the action is. It's just trying too hard. It's trying too hard to be John Wick. It's trying too hard to be some of the hardcore action that we've seen elsewhere. You could, you could, you could feel Alan Aaron Taylor Johnson's physical efforts in this movie. I mean, he really is working. But okay, it doesn't, it doesn't work. There were a couple scenes of the powers of Craven that I kind of was like in better hands. If this was actually against Spider Man. Might have been interesting because he's kind of using like the eyes of an animal to hunt. And you sort of see the camera kind of like adopts almost like the beast viewpoint and like zooms in. And I was like, if you did this the right way with him hunting spider. If he was dueling Spider Man, I'm like, maybe there's something here that could have been entertaining, but in the context of this just didn't work. I will say this, though. This did include the sign that Sony has given up because there's no credit scene. I didn't even try. They gave up. They didn't even try to put, put him together with anyone else or, you. [01:13:53] Speaker A: Know, good for them. That's probably the only thing, right? They did. [01:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So this movie is like a. Yeah, it's like a one star. You know, Dennis Thieves is a solid two and a half. Like very entertaining two hours. This is a one star. Like for Sony to say this was good and we're too stupid to realize it's good. [01:14:10] Speaker A: No. I almost gave it A chance. Because the director wanted us to go see it. He was. [01:14:16] Speaker B: Please delivered some good stuff elsewhere. But this. No, this is J.C. chander. No, this will not be on his. On his hall of Fame submission someday. [01:14:25] Speaker A: He will not be showing it as a part of his audition. Reel. No Red one. [01:14:33] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Okay, so my wife and I streamed this. We. We literally was like, we want something mindless to watch. We. We've been watching a bunch of stuff and we were just like, yeah, it's just. Let's check this out. Okay, so here's the thing about Red One. Dwayne Johnson is not in the same movie as everyone else usually. So Chris Evans got the memo because he's having fun. He knows this movie is stupid. He knows this movie is ridiculous, and he's just having fun in every scene. He's like the audience. He literally has all these lines where he's like, what in the actual. Like, he says that like three different ways in the movie. And I'm like. But he says it in a way that's very Chris Evansy. He's selling it to you. He's. He's basically tongue in cheek, almost winking at you the whole time. He's having a good time. J.K. simmons is having a good time as Santa Claus. Yes. He delivers a few lines where he's trying to seem like the true jolly Santa, but you could almost see his mouth, like crinkling up in a smile every time he talks. He knows he's in a silly movie about Christmas and he's having a good time with it. Dwayne Johnson thinks he's Lawrence Olivier. Every line that he utters in the movie is so earnest and so serious and he is actor Dwayne Johnson. It to the point where you're just like, man, I know nobody can give the Rock any notes, but this is embarrassing. Like, to think that this guy was one of the most, if not the most charismatic on mic performers in the squared. [01:16:12] Speaker A: Right, Right. [01:16:14] Speaker B: Didn't care how ridiculous or ludicrous he sounded, but got over because he could make anything sound entertaining. To see him as this, where he is clearly thinking, I might be able to win an Oscar nomination with these line deliveries. It's just sad, man. It is sad. It is sad. [01:16:35] Speaker A: The cries for him to sort of go away are getting louder and louder. Right. He is wasting film. He is wasting people's time. He is wasting resources on talent that he thinks he has. He probably has it somewhere, but he doesn't care enough about those things or to exert Himself, mentally, to bring himself to a point where he's actually given of giving us a performance worthy of our time and money. He is making a mockery of the film industry. [01:17:24] Speaker B: You don't even need to watch like the movie's two plus hours. Watch five minutes and just hear him do one scene and you like, you can hear it like the other person he's talking to knows they're in basically a comedy, a family comedy. I'm telling you, he thinks he's doing Shakespeare. He's got his brow furrowed, his voice is low, he's saying these lines like it's supposed to mean the most important thing in the world to people. He's the worst part of the movie is not close. And this movie is not the worst thing I've ever seen. It's not like, you know, it's not a hit that the four quadrant hit that they thought they had. It's not that there's some, there's some endearing kind of chuckly stuff about Christmas in here where you're like, yeah, someone had a kind of a tongue in cheek kind of nod like kind of Santa. I think I actually like the J.K. simmons Santa. Just as like someone was like, so someone's basically was like, so how the hell would he go around the world and actually do this in one night? And they kind of show their version of it and it's silly, but it's like, yeah, that's sort of amusing in a very like light way. But man, every scene the Rock is in and he's in most of this movie, he's brutal. Brutal. Just be the. Honestly, just be the. This would have been the perfect movie to be the Rock because this movie is silly. Like this is a movie where like his on mic Persona would have actually worked very well. So for him to turn that off entirely and think that he's in a drama. Absurd. It's absurd. And he, he, he was in news. He got a mention. [01:19:01] Speaker A: Oh, that was yo. When I was watching that shout outs to Vin Diesel for just being like, hey, Dwayne. He didn't even call him the Rock. He said Dwayne. He called him by his first name. And you see Rock smile and then go back to Sirius. So it was a very interesting. [01:19:27] Speaker B: How. [01:19:28] Speaker A: Would I call it, interaction between the two of them. [01:19:31] Speaker B: It was not authentic either. That was an absolute troll on stage by Vin Diesel. And Dwayne Johnson's smirk in response tells you that they're not thawed between. They may do fast 11 together because they have to Commercially. And they need each other more than ever. Those two dudes don't like. [01:19:51] Speaker A: Like each other. No. Because they probably have the same kind of personalities. They run stuff, whatever they're involved in. [01:20:00] Speaker B: Sense of their capabilities. Like. Like they. They both think they are something they are probably not. Yeah, I did think of. You know, you were talking about the Sergeant Rock thing, so. Because I was when I was watching the Globes and I was watching Nikki Glaser and I was like, that is what's going to be the Rock's nightmare is when Sergeant Rock comes out and his nomination and Dwayne Johnson in the audience and the host of whatever award show that is cracks the Rock in a Sergeant Rock reference. That's going to be the moment. [01:20:32] Speaker A: I cannot wait. I cannot wait. I. I cannot wait for Sergeant Rock. Oh, my God. We are going to devote an episode to Sergeant Rock. I cannot wait for that movie to come out because I will say Rock so many times and it has nothing to do with the ring. The Rock Johnson. You can trademark it all you want, but nobody's going to be thinking of you. Sergeant Rock will be the talk of the town and they will have nothing to do with you. Only jokes and poking at you because you're not. You're not going to be the talk of the town. But, yeah, anything else, Brian, before we wrap this one up, World War Hulk. [01:21:22] Speaker B: A project that we are dreading, got a. At least a flicker of interest, at least on my side. I don't know if it'll go anywhere. [01:21:32] Speaker A: I mean, he doesn't do horrible stuff. He does good stuff. So he might give us some glimmer of hope for the Hulk and who he is. I'm just not sold anymore on Mark Ruffalo's portrayal. Let's see what sort of performance George Miller requires of him in this. And what. I'm just already turned off by the. The. The notion of how the World War Hulk storyline will be used. Granted, they've done storylines in the past that have worked out well for them. What's it called? The Infinity Gauntlet. Infinity Wars. Right. They totally redid that. And they kept certainly some elements of it. I guess the core elements of getting the stones and snapping the fingers, they did a lot of good things there. But when it comes down to the Hulk, they have destroyed storylines, Brian, that if they would have done them, I don't know. I guess taking a better approach rather than making him, I guess, the Hulk, a comic relief character. I'm sorry, man. I've always been a proponent of The Hulk is a scary individual. You don't want to be around when he is turned loose. And they've made him into a joke. They made him into a joke. Ever since Thor Ragnarok, I think it sort of went downhill, right? Or Infinity War, but door Ragnarok, I think. Yes. [01:23:40] Speaker B: Where he starts to become silly. [01:23:41] Speaker A: Yes, silly. [01:23:43] Speaker B: Hulk starts talking, but he starts talking in sort of one line jokes. [01:23:47] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And the fact that they use the planet Hulk storyline to do that. This is again, the wrong people are in the room when doing these things. The Hulk, I think to me is a actual tragedy in how they treated this character in the mcu. A Marvel character. This is one character that I think Stan Lee will be recipes be upset about because of how they have portrayed the Hulk. I'm telling you right now, the Hulk is the Hulk for me was one of my favorite characters, man. The opening when I was a kid watching the Animated series, that opening, the music. Oh my God. Every time I hear it, I go crazy. And I was in watching Bill Bixie's performance and his relentless pursuit to get rid of the Hulk and his ultimate action of having to leave wherever he has settled because he can't be there anymore and him having to break away from these relationships that he has formed because this has happened. It is a tragedy. His story is tragic. And they made it into a bumbling Hawaiian shirt. Yoga. What? These words shouldn't go together. Hulk and yoga don't go together. Go together. Hawaiian shirt don't go together. And yet they've made a mockery. I'm talking to you, Kevin. You've made a mockery because you're the man in charge. And now you're trying to get somebody that can possibly do some work because you no longer don't know what to do but go Hollywood and get somebody that can do. Can deliver a Hulk, a Hulk movie that people will probably go see. But I'm not going to be one of those guys going with excitement. I'm going to see what you. What more horrific things you've done with this character. Your thoughts, Brian, on Kevin Feige's play, on getting George Miller to do this. [01:26:15] Speaker B: So there's a couple layers to this. So first off, this meeting was brokered by Chris Hemsworth, who of course just worked with George Miller on Furiosa. And so actually the conversation was about both Thor 5 and World War Hulk. [01:26:29] Speaker A: I hope he takes Thor 5 because that's what. That's the one I'm looking forward to seeing. [01:26:34] Speaker B: So apparently there's there's talk that he could go in either direction. Obviously Hemsworth wants to work with him again. What I find interesting about the Hulk conversation specifically is Miller, who's definitely. He's eccentric, but he's a brilliant action mind. Really likes to live in practical effects. That's like if you watch the Mad Max movies like those are. That's real vehicular destruction that you're seeing on screen. So how does that marry with World War Hulk where it's going to be mostly cgi. Now Miller does have a background in animation because he did the Happy Feet movies which were very successful and very well received. So this is a really interesting guy. Like he doesn't have like a one track mind, but he is 80 years old. So this is whatever he does, this is probably a one and done. Almost certainly whichever direction he goes in, it would. His skills would seem to go more closely aligned with Thor. Like if you want to make Thor grittier, if you want to make Thor more grounded after the Taika silliness that it seems like he could readily do. And even okay, there's CGI with the lightning and some of the effects with the hammer. But like the. You can make that action very believable and very real if you wanted to. Depending on what story you want to tell. Especially if you want to. Especially if you wanted to do try to make something more serious out of the Olympians and out of the sort of the kind of the. The silliness that they try to introduce with Hercules. If you actually want to make that real, he probably could pull that back. Him and Hulk don't seem like the marriage to me. I. I mean, unless he has a specific idea for this, this doesn't seem like where he. His skills would be best deployed. And the story does say that in this proposed idea, Ruffalo absolutely would be Bruce Banner. There's no recast as part of. As part of this storyline and that. And that. Confirming, maybe confirming. But adding smoke to some of the rumors we heard previously that both Brave New World and Thunderbolts would serve as springboards into whatever version of World War Hulk they intend to tell. [01:28:44] Speaker A: I heard Scar his kid perishes and that causes him to go crazy. And then we get this World War Hulk situation. There's a lot of different things going on about the Leader providing the leaders of the world with their own sort of Hulk situation. It's whatever right now. Well, I'm hoping that George Miller decides to choose Store five because I think he does need that redemption based on Thor love and Thunder was. I'm sorry, man. Was a travesty, man. It was thought of. And thunder was. [01:29:27] Speaker B: It's a bridge too far. It's like it would come. Ragnarok was already, I think, for you and me, too silly in some regards. And then that one just. Yeah. And it's a shame, like I said, because I think between Bale and, you know, I think the black and white scene, there's some moments in there where I'm just like. I wish they were in a different movie because there's. There is still brilliance in that movie, but it is just completely overrun with the silliness and the goofiness. It's just. [01:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah, dumb stuff, yo. Thor5 and that possibility of seeing Hemsworth and Loki reunite, we gotta see that. We gotta see what that looks like, how they react to that, what kind of that, to me is the moment that I am there for at least 15 minutes to see how that transpires and then whatever else happens with the movie. But let's see what he chooses. Hopefully he chooses the right thing, and hopefully he decides not to go with the hope. Because the hope, to me, I'm like, I don't want to even. I'm done, done, done. I don't want to see it ever, like, because. Come on, man. It's like the Hulk is like. He's wearing cardigans. Come on, man. [01:30:43] Speaker B: Godzilla, now, what if. [01:30:48] Speaker A: You made this dude into God, you're buying. When his. When he did the fire thing through his mouth, yo, I. I nearly got up and just walked out of my own house. And this is what I'm talking about, man, is like, yo, how do you do this? How do you do this? But whatever, it's done. But, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of all that we've talked about. I know that you've gone on for some time, but there's a. There's things to look at here that we have to sort of dig deeper and try to understand where they're going to be going with some of these things. The Batman is a. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is a situation here. We. In 2025. Matt Reeves is supposedly going to be writing or starting. He wants to start this year right in that. In shooting. [01:31:44] Speaker B: He said he's shooting in the fall later. [01:31:46] Speaker A: Okay. [01:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:47] Speaker A: Okay. Where that ends up, we don't know. T'challa. Whether Black Panther gets either. Either recast or an alternate Black Panther, T'Challa Jr. Grown up, we don't know yet. But we definitely talked about possibilities there. Annie Muschietti not getting the memo as in yo, what are you talking about about stop talking. I mean Captain America man is gonna be sad to see how this all turns out because if it's a failure, listen, Hollywood has his list of black actors. I'm pretty sure Anthony Mack is going to be on that list for a minute because they don't seem to be looking to get other people or people willing to participate in these things. He's going to get jobs but it's I hate for him to be the associated with the disaster that could be with Captain America. Brave new world. So yes, let us know in the comment section below if you saw red one and what you thought of the rocks performance. And are you looking forward to sergeant Rock? I am, yeah. Remember to hit that like and subscribe button and we'll see you next time on the nerd J report.