Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? And welcome back to another episode of the Nerdgen Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Today we are going to be discussing the last episode of the last episode of Daredevil, Season 1, Episode 9. What I've been hearing about this show for the most part is that people really enjoyed the last few episodes and are really pumped up for the second season of this.
When I watched it and I thought about it, it reminded me of like, this is the, I guess the foundation of what the next seasons will be. And I think although they sort of muddled the storyline a little bit, trying to keep some of the stuff that they did previous to this, they served. It was a slow, slow burn. And I think people were probably a bit frustrated with some of the things that occurred in that season.
But like I said before this, the next season should be really like part two because of how it transpired in this, transpired in season one. But it reminded me of, would you say Game of Thrones, for example? Those seasons don't end well. Right. They end with a cliffhanger so that you can see what happens next, obviously in the second season doesn't resolve self. It continues on based on what's occurring and bad stuff happens at the end. And this is what we got to deal with next season.
Would you agree with that? And how did you feel people received. How did you receive this episode? I think, I think we both agree that this was a pretty good episode. But what are your thoughts?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I've seen a lot of people refer to this as feeling more like a mid season finale than a season finale, and I think that's right, but I think it's inevitable. We know this show's original format was, was 18 episodes in one shot, so my guess is whatever the original episode nine was going to be was always going to have some kind of cliffhanger to it. And so with Benson and Moorhead and Dario Scar Pain coming in late to sort of take over this show and redo a lot of what they originally had on the board, you had to expect there was going to be some degree of, hey, we've got to move the pieces to where we really want them for the go forward. And you can kind of feel that in the last episode too, but you certainly felt it in this one. You know, I'm definitely optimistic for season two. This is not a bad finale.
I definitely think episodes eight and nine in particular, with Benson and Moorhead coming back to direct, felt much more of A piece and evolutionary with the Netflix show.
And I think there's real potential for this show to kind of move back into that class if they lean into the right areas and improve a few other ones. One, most notably as we get into season two, the finale did have, I thought, a few of the recurring flaws of this season, and it also had, I want to talk about it also had sort of an interesting creative choice that I wonder if it was showing. I guess I wonder what the priority of this particular episode ultimately was, because it did feel at some points like it was setting up two things in particular, but one that it really kind of leaned more into as opposed to the other. But overall, I think it was a pretty solid finale. I said overall, I think you have to. It's an uneven show, but I think I put it in the solid with sort of an up arrow category. It's not a classic on its own.
We obviously know it was production hell to get it to this point. We also know that production will be not hell for the second season because they're already shooting that and it's the same people who ended season one. So there's a lot more continuity, a lot more singularity in the storytelling. So there's a lot of upside here. But it's. I would put it in that category of like, solid finale overall, solid show and worth a watch, but work to be done to get back to Netflix classic level.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Were you surprised that we. Because we thought we were going to see Daredevil and Kingpin in the same scene once again, but we didn't get that.
Were you surprised not seeing some sort of conversation because Frank asked him, why did you save him? He's like, he had no. He. He doesn't have any idea why he did that. But based on our previous conversation, you said it was a Catholic remorse or something.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: Oh, Catholic guilt. I kind of was saying that a little bit tongue in cheek because we know Matt's religious background. But I do think he saw himself as responsible for Bullseye escaping, and that's why he kind of took. I think that's why he took the L on that.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Did he know that he loosened his tooth in order for him to be able to escape? What caused them to believe that he was responsible for that escape?
[00:05:22] Speaker B: I think there's an exchange that lets you know. That lets him know that the sequence of events that played out was triggered by his. What he knows to be his action in that room that Bullseye got over on him.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Basically, Kingpin seems to know everything. So Vanessa wanted to Tell him something. And Kim Ping Kingpin was like, I know already. But it's like, I don't know. I think that was a little bit.
He can't know everything just like this by knowing everything. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I think that you lose out on an opportunity for an exchange between Vanessa and Kingpin in some sense in sort of clarifying that situation and him understanding why she did whatever the case may be. But they sort of glossed over by saying, I know already. What did you think of, of that?
[00:06:13] Speaker B: I didn't love how that was used overall, in the sense of I thought there would be more of a, a period where Kingpin would be indebted to Matt and that would lead to some interesting cross purposes situations between the three of them. Kind of like Vanessa Fisk and Matt.
So I didn't love the fact that he went straight from Matt Murdock took a bullet for me to we need to eliminate him in the hospital. Like that to me felt like almost un Kingpin.
Like I felt like, well, we gotta eliminate him. But like right now I can't because this guy saved my life.
I didn't love that part of it. Which then led to the. But once she made that choice, that's I feel like was linked to the him with Vanessa being like, well, I already know. Like, I already have. You know, you're not, you're not telling me something I don't know. But you're right. I mean, Kingpin has to have every once in a while, part of what makes the character scary is that he is surprised or taken aback by a development and then he goes crazy. Right? That's actually part of what makes the character great. We saw that, we've seen that a couple of times.
So yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I still like the, the Fisk Vanessa setup of, you know, he, him knowing is pretty sadistic on its own because he's kind of saying like, I, this is my, this is my girl. This is, this is the person I can be with because she's so twisted herself that she would put a hit out on me. And so in a weird way, he's like, that's absolutely the kind of person I want, you know, to, to be with. But from a romantic standpoint. But I hear you. Like, I, I, I think it might have been a little more interesting if there was sort of this duplicity going on between the two of them that wasn't resolved necessarily until season two, which could have tested their relationship differently. But.
But I was more. I would say I was more put off by him trying to kill Matt in the hospital right after Matt had taken the bullet for him.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah. When he said, let's eliminate, I was like, oh, man, this guy has no. Like, when I thought about that, like, what code does he have?
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that felt like a violation. That felt like a violation of that. The other part of this that I kind of was trying to figure out was I was trying to. He knows Foggy from the Vanessa show, or, Sorry, from the Netflix show. He knows who Foggy is in relation to Matt Murdock because he sends Wesley to the law office.
So he clearly has known that connection.
So I was a little bit. Yeah, I was a little bit. I guess the other part I was a little bit wary of and disappointed in is that Kingpin took the hit on Foggy as being so inbounds. Like I said, I always thought he would have thought that was a little bit out of bounds. So I guess he just doesn't care that now Daredevil would have every excuse to go after Vanessa in addition to him. That was the part that I thought would be sort of interesting, but I guess we're not going to work. We're not going to worry about that. And he's just using it as like, well, I'm just going to declare martial law and try to exterminate all the. All the vigilantes.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: But he could easily say it wasn't him that. That went after Foggy, it was Vanessa. But he didn't break, quote, unquote, his code or his deal with Matt.
But I just found it a little bit like, Mayor Humdinger is a little more sinister. May, you know, what did you think of the Punisher sequence?
[00:09:52] Speaker B: So I got to be honest, this was not my favorite Punisher usage.
And this was, if I had a number one question for this episode, is that this felt more like the lead in to whatever Bernthal wants to do with his special than Daredevil's episode.
Because from the moment Frank arrives as sort of the rescuer, a lot of the action revolves around him.
Like, I feel like the fight in the apartment, they kind of focus on him a bit more. He obviously is the one who goes and kind of assaults the cops full on, which I sort of have a problem with.
And then the credit scene is clearly, I'm assuming, leading to his escape, and then that'll be where the special starts.
So while I never mind having John Bernthal in as Frank Castle, it felt like a lot of Frank Castle for the show we were in, considering he'd only been in it for one scene prior to that. And I thought the action while brutal, which. I'll go against the action again in a second.
There was some unpunisher stuff to it.
Like, would he have really walked into that situation with a handgun? Only, like, I don't.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: There was one at the end, or.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: There was a part of me that was sort of like, if that was full Punisher, he would have come a little more prepared than to just be sort of overwhelmed and taken a few blasts to the vest leading to him being subdued. Like, I don't know. There was just a part of that that felt like, okay, I'm doing this full frontal assault, and we want it to look brutal and we want it to look very real. But then in the back of my mind, I'm like, I feel like Frank might have handled this a little bit differently even in his own Netflix show than.
Than this. I don't know.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: I think for me, I'm thinking, you know, Punisher has put himself in situations deliberately in order for him to find out more intel and whatever that costs him physically and, you know, whatever he has to undergo to find out that intel.
I think he planned to get caught. Right.
So, yeah, I mean, that's what. That's what I think. I didn't mind his character or his. His part in this because it ultimately, you know, was a favorite of Cameron. He'll do pretty much anything for Cameron or whatever.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: And he helped him out, whatever. And. But I think he planned to get caught. And what. That. I still don't know. His involvement because his involvement in next season, if he is involved, because it can't be a whole new thing. Right. You know what I'm saying?
Like, if he go. If he. If this. Sees. If this. The special goes into a situation where it's completely different from what from Daredevil or the situation happening in season two, then this would be sort of a, I guess, waste.
Unless they pay it off in season two with him, his involvement. I don't know.
It's kind of weird.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: But. Okay, so I don't tell. I don't disagree that he intended to get caught because he wanted information, but if that was his intent, why go through that degree of punishment to get there? Pun intended.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: That happened to him, remember, in season two. He got caught and he had a freaking drill going through his foot, but he planned to get caught, you know, saying so that he can do what he had to do, which was, you know, it's Crazy.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. I guess for me, it felt a little bit forced. I don't know. I guess it just felt like it was like, we want to get Bernthal doing his thing, breaking bones, but at the end, these are also cops, albeit crooked cops. And so, like, he, you know, we need to get him. Yeah. We need to get into the information.
And it's like. But then we're going to shotgun him from behind to his vest, like, four times. It just. I don't know. There was something about it that just felt a little unnatural compared to some of the more organic explosions we've seen Frank have, like the prison fight or even when he's.
When he's imprisoned and kills, like Agent Orange in season one of the Punisher show, like that. Those are instances where it felt like it kind of flowed naturally from where the story was and where he was. This one kind of felt like we need to have a big set piece, and we want it to be a Frank Castle set piece. So let's kind of play around with that a little bit. I don't know. That's just how I received it in the moment.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: I think the conversation I hear is mostly about the season because, again, it felt a little bit put together, not really thought through in terms of the story that they wanted to tell.
Because, again, that, that, that. That episode, the bank robbery is meaningless now. It's like, meaningless. Other than mentioning Kamala five times, you know, other than that. That. That. That. That episode is so filler. Is. Is ridiculous. And. And. And I didn't. I mean, there was too much of Matt getting back to Daredevil.
Right.
It was just too much of it. And I think they wasted a lot of time in exposition, and it just felt a little bit, again, discombobulated. But they certainly. How many episodes did they write? Did they direct 1? 2 and 3. 3.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: 1.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Directed 3.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: 1.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: 9. And now they're thinking about doing more seasons and more seasons. Like every. Every year, a season of Daredevil.
That leads me to believe that perhaps we're going to be living in this state for some time until they get a finale, whatever. I don't know. But.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Short answer is yes. And I got some quotes from. From the showrunners about the Defenders as well, because that's seemingly inevitable at this point.
This episode, you know, we talk about strengths and weaknesses. This episode, again, I think, and I think more so than any other episode in the series, drove home the contrast between the roster of Netflix and the roster they added. Because this episode you get.
Right, you get the mainstays. You get cox, you get D'Onofrio. You know, you've got. Vanessa has kind of her scene with. With Dex, you know, for the. In the flashback, you get Frank Castle, a lot of Frank Castle. You get Karen Page back. Then you kind of have that scene in the hospital where Heather Glenn and McDuffie, they're all. They're in the same place. And you're kind of like this. These just didn't work. Like, these characters just didn't work this season.
And I gotta be honest, like, it didn't bother me at all that Matt's first word in his drug induced interest was Gary. Because I was like, I don't care about Heather Glenn. Like, I just don't like. And like, you know, then they give her this supposed dramatic moment where she's gonna go work for Kingpin. And I'm like, good, go work for Kingpin. I could care less at this point. I gotta be honest. Like, you just haven't done enough for me to feel like, oh, no, don't do that. Like, you know, like, I didn't feel that because the character is not fleshed out well enough.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: The character's not fleshed out well enough. But I think they also want people not to like her.
And this and her working for Kington gives us more of a reason not to like her.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: I just think you get the contrast where every time one of those legacy characters is in a scene together, like, even when like Matt and Karen are going through the files, that scene is more emotional and more weighty. When they're talking about, can you hear my heartbeat? Like, that means something because they have history. Like, if he's having that seems. If he's having any equivalent scene like that with like McDuffie or Heather, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't feel. I don't feel anything. That's what. I guess that's what I'm saying is like, if I gave this show, I would give the show two notes for next season and the one of the two notes would be spend. If you really want these other characters to do something in this show, then you have to spend more time with them and give us a reason why we should care.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: I think in the next season, hopefully they can pull that off because we sort of get our team of individuals that are going to be helping Daredevil.
Right? So I would assume there will be a lot of conversations.
There's gonna be.
Hopefully we get Daredevil at night, not. Not by day.
Because that. Because I. I don't know how he snuck into her off. I don't know. Daredevil running around in the daytime doesn't make sense to me.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: It does not.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: You know, because how he getting around. He know, like he would show up on. On a. On a. On a.
On Instagram with somebody with a camera seeing. Look at this guy running across. You know what I'm saying? It just doesn't make sense to me at night. It makes sense. So hopefully we get a little bit more of that, huh?
No.
Unless it's like Justice League. That's what he's been in during the day with. With Justice League, but with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the action sequences, I think it was a little. I. I think it was better because it was more practical stuff. It didn't take me out of the. The action like the first episode did with the cgi. And some of the other spots with Daredevil is doing something that looks not like him and it looks cgi. But this one definitely didn't take me out of the action when. When I. When I saw it. What did you think?
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Better still work to do. I still have notes. This will still be my other note for next season is I think there's a level of. I think they're. I saw a little experimentation in this episode, and I don't know if they're going to stick with all of it, but I saw them trying a few things, and I thought some were good and some were not. So the fight in the apartment.
One thing I liked about this fight was that I was actually thinking about. Do you remember the scene in Daredevil Season two where Matt breaks Punisher out of the basement where he's being held?
He's imprisoned in the basement. Right.
And so it's really cool escape scene, but there's one thing kind of like that defies a little believability, which is Matt manages to prevent Frank from killing anyone. He basically knocks the gun out of his hand, like, does things while he's fighting at every turn to prevent this. I really like in this scene that he couldn't do that. I like the fact that he was injured. He was somewhat on the defensive. And so he's fighting and he's mad because Frank is killing people, but he can only stop him so often. I like that because I think that's a much more realistic portrayal, how these two guys would actually coexist. It's constant push, pull. And sometimes, like, Matt has to deal with, like, Frank is killing somebody. That might Actually save Matt in the moment. And then he's got to reconcile the fact that had he not done that, I'd be. I'd be dead. But. And I wish he didn't do that. You know, Like, I like that part of this. This scene a lot. What I was less convinced of was the slow mo. That has not been a thing that Netflix really liked to do because they wanted to show you the realism of what they were doing. And so there's a couple of shots where, like, Frank goes over the table, the camera's with him, it's super slow mo. And I'm like, I think they're trying it because I'd never seen them do it before. And I was like. I was like, okay, I don't mind you experimenting and messing around a little bit. I don't know that that belongs in this show. If you want it to be as gritty as you want. You seem to want it to be. So that was my, like, one thing in that scene. The second thing that I thought was not.
I wonder about was when Frank is doing his thing at the end. So that scene, just from the merits of the action itself, felt very much like his own show. Like what he used to do in. In, you know, season one and two of Punisher. But the blood. Do you notice that they. Ninja assassin. The blood in this a little bit where, like, it was, like, it seemed like it was either CGI'd or flourished on there when they were spraying it. And I was like, this looks a little like, are you trying for a comic book kind of blood splatter? Or are you just trying to figure out how to show blood on screen and say, hey, there's blood. It's Disney. There's blood. Like, there's something about that that was like, it's not quite right. There's a lot of blood in the Netflix show, but it always looks like it just happened. Like, it always looks like it somehow just came out of these people. This one felt like, here's a hit and we're gonna woo, like, put a little. Little red splash on that to draw you that. I know it's like a little thing, but it was one of those that I just circled as, like, I want to see if this is just something they're gonna play with, because I don't think they had really done it to this extent all season. So anyway, those are my two notes. I agree with you. I did think it was better. I still think there's work to be done. And I will say by giving Frank the last big action set piece and having Matt kind of defer and not really go in, I was a little. I was like, okay, I still think we need Matt to kind of showcase a little bit in the premiere then, of season two. I need a little more from. From Daredevil's action still.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: I want to be impressed by his fighting.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Just like I want to be impressed by Iron Fist when he fights. He. They. They can't be similar. You know what I'm saying? They can't be. These guys are elite fighters, and they have to show some sort of execution that shows that off. So we could be like, oh, snap. You know what I'm saying? But.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: I mean, that's. You know, I mean, nobody will ever compare to this. But in my mind, that's part of what makes the final fight and Enter the Dragon so timeless, is that. Yes, I get it. You're stretching the story a little bit, but you're doing it so that Bruce Lee can showcase what he can do with a staff with nunchucks with his hands and feet. Like, yeah, each one of those segments is its own watch because it is a clinic in the actual martial art. And I get it. I'm not expecting every actor to be able to do what he was able to do. But my point is, he's blending style, right? He's saying, look, it's the same guy. I'm doing this long, elongated fight scene, but I'm actually showcasing different aspects of martial arts along the way. You can do that with the characters, right? If Danny Rand has a style, he should have a style like, you know, Matt has a style that's hybrid of boxing and sort of. Sort of ninjas sort of techniques. It's like, yeah, they should look different. And then, Frank, obviously it's not. It's not a martial art so much. It's really sort of a brute force. But Special Forces train still. So, yeah, like, I should be able to really tell the choreographical difference between them when they're all kind of on. On screen together. So I agree with you.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Tbd, again, there seems to be a lot of people that really enjoyed the season.
Some people didn't really.
Some people thought that the sea. Some people didn't really like how it ended because it didn't resolve anything. And that's whatever, right?
[00:26:12] Speaker B: That's fine for where we're at.
Like, be realistic about where this show and this season was. This is really half a season. Half a season.
So you can't expect that things are going to be tied Up. I think there's no question to me that the back half of this season is better than the first. Like, if you just chopped it, even. No reordering. You and I would do reordering and re. Editing. But even without that, if you start this show around episode four, it's better. Like, if you start this show around episode six, seven, and then obviously eight, nine, with it, when the. When the current directors and showrunners are fully in command, it's better. There's no question.
That's why there's momentum up Arrow. There's momentum going into the next season because now you won't have this baggage or whatever these original guys wrote and shot.
And if, And I say in retrospect, the majority, not all the majority of that footage to me, feels more like baggage. As we're leaving this season, what did.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: You think of the Gallo Skull crush?
[00:27:19] Speaker B: I didn't hate it. I mean, you know, they're looking for.
We probably. We needed. We needed a Kingpin goes nuts moment. We hadn't gotten one. This was definitely a little over the top, but I didn't hate it just because it's like, okay, you need to establish for this show and this world again, that even the people who work for Kingpin are terrified of what he's capable of, which is something that the Netflix show just brought to the table from the very beginning. And this was clearly that moment when you see the looks on the faces of everyone watching, you know, when they realize the true nature of their mayor. I didn't hate it. Was it a little over the top? Yes, absolutely. But I didn't hate it. What did you think?
[00:28:02] Speaker A: I mean, I always think of, like, this is what I think about, like, Disney is no longer family oriented.
I don't think of the two as a family or I don't think of Disney that way anymore. You know, they did it in order to compete with other. But they haven't separated themselves anymore with being family friendly or whatever the case may be, because, again, with these characters, you can't really do that. Is.
It is a tough thing to.
Tough thing to sort of, I would say not debate, but to. It just feels like Disney. Disney anymore.
It ain't. It ain't.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: I don't think they know what. I don't think they really know what. What they want to be, though. I mean, I think this. That's what I mean. The blood flourishes, some of that violence, like the gallows scene. I mean, that's like the Deadpool and Wolverine. It's like there is a little bit of like, hey, we're Disney. We still. We will do this stuff. We will do this stuff. And it's like, you know, any of us knows the history. It's like you guys had Touchstone Pictures back in the day. Like, you've always done this stuff, man. You've always done this. You didn't call it Disney, but what. Touchstone Pictures was owned by Disney. They put up tons of R rated movies back in the 90s and 80s. Like, you know, but it was always been this side of it. There's always been this side of it.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, but now they included into their Disney brand, I think the challenge, and.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Much more so than Deadpool, just because Deadpool, for all of its gore, is still very comic book in its nature.
I think we saw, for example, like in she Hulk, when you cross Daredevil into that world, how that kind of suffers.
I don't know that you could ever put a. This ver. Like the true gritty version of the Defenders. I don't think you could put them into the Avengers world as it's presently written.
Like, redo that Frank Castle scene.
Redo some of the, you know, redo that scene as a PG13 scene. Does it still work that. I mean, that's how you have to look at it. Like, redo Daredevil's hallway fight as a PG13 scene or the Nobu fight as a PG13. Like, it gets a little challenged. My point is, like, you start to get into that point of that scene alongside, like, Iron man flying around, shooting aliens like it, you know, like that. So I think there's a reason those things have never really crisscrossed yet. And I wonder if they ever will, because the tone that. That feels tough. Like, even I saw people being like, why? Why wasn't someone. I saw someone ask like, why wasn't Spider man in the Born Again finale? And I kind of was just like, yeah, okay, you're pretty hopeful there. But then apparently then. So they got to the point where Windenbaum actually talked about it. So they can't. In case you're wondering, there's a rights issue. They can't use Spider man in live action television. They can do him animated and he has a contractual list for how he can appear in MCU movies.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: But.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: But they cannot use Tom Holland or any other Spider man on screen in television. So you'll never see that. But I'm like, I don't know. That would have made sense, like, if he just swung into that scene, like, as it was Being played out. He's looking around like what's going on here? Like, I don't know if that really works. I don't know. Just food for thought for the future. So.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: So out of a five star rating, what would you give this season?
[00:31:38] Speaker B: So I, I'm giving it a three. And like I said, my emphasis is with an up arrow. Like it's like the end of this season is much more like a three and maybe even heading to en route to what I think will be at least a four. But I think over the course of the nine episodes there's just not enough of that now for me to say this is already four or better. I think four or better means you are an excellent show with potential to be great. I think right now this is a solid show with the potential to be excellent. It's like a notch down. So, you know, like I give high marks to Cox, I give high marks to D'Onofrio. In the end, I think once it became clear what he did with the character in terms of almost weakening it as it lost weight to then bringing it back, I think he's probably my MVP of the season. I think he's doing the most acting without you realizing he's actually acting. So I think they did a great job in sort of putting this show a difficult show on their backs and kind of carrying this. I also give high marks for the old supporting characters that we knew plus Daniel Blake like that character. And then I think I probably would give the demerits more to needs improvement in action, needs improvement in the supporting characters. And then just the one which is, I know we'll get which is just needs more cohesion in terms of how this is organized and put forward. But overall that's how I give it three. But like I would say like you're exiting at more like a three and a half.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with that. That's what I was going to do. I was going to do probably like three and a half. Three, three and a half with. With anticipation for the next season. Of course. I think in the next season we'll probably hit the floor running real hard and it's going to be very interesting to see the difference between the season one and season two.
And I'm looking forward to it.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I would also just say I do like one thing I like that they're doing and I would encourage them to keep doing is I really like the fact that Dex never dies. This is a very like comic books true thing of like having these guys come in and come out and they, they thwart him. But they can't keep doing that because they've, you know, Wilson Bethel does a really nice job in the part.
There's no reason to take him off the board. You can incapacitate him all the time, but don't kill him. And I think this show would be wise if they're going to start to introduce. Oh, maybe let's do this. As they start to introduce more classic villains. Because they're going to have to, because the Defenders are clearly coming. And I do want your sign off thoughts on that.
I would highly encourage that they keep recycling them. Like I said, that rumor that Muse is coming back, great. I, you know, make changes to Muse, give him his imperceptibility, bring him back. Like, I don't need to start over every time with a brand new villain. I'd almost rather pick it up with a new plan and a new iteration from someone I already know sometimes. So that would be my sort of recommendation there. But, yeah, the speech, Matt's speech, where he doesn't have an army, but clearly really doesn't really have a real army, but he clearly says he's going to recruit one. Let me give you this quote from the showrunner because then you can react to the Defenders thing because it's very clear there. I think all of these people are going to come back and we can argue the merits of. As we wait for Finn Jones's street fighting video to come out, they asked Scarter Pain about the other characters and he said, quote, without giving too much away. When you're working in what I would call the Hell's Kitchen corner of the mcu, those iconic characters, meaning the rest of the all of the Defenders, are always in mind. The thing is that it's kind of hard. I'm trying to thread a needle here. You want to bring in people in relationships and past figures in Matt's life because they help the story, particularly in terms of a story where Fisk has taken over the city and there is a resistance and a rebellion, so to speak, rising. So there need to be people, vigilantes and superheroes that are involved in that. And this has to be happening because it's their city. That said, you also want to create a completely organic story for that. So who comes in and why has to be beyond anything earned. So the easiest answer to your question is yes, those characters you just listed off are absolutely in my head and everybody's head as we're working. How that manifests itself is really tricky. Writing wise And a pretty closely guarded secret at this point, end quote. I. E. They're all coming back. I mean, that's clearly what he's saying. Right? So. So my question is, if they're all coming back, how would you introduce them? How soon? What would make you happy? What would make you roll your eyes?
[00:36:24] Speaker A: Well, with Luke Cage, because he operates a nightclub, that 8 o'clock curfew doesn't seem feasible for his business.
So he'll probably break the law in terms of having parties and stuff like that and people having to try to shut him down and he's gonna, you know, so that's one thing. Uh, Jessica Jones, she's all. She seems like she's almost down for any little thing.
I don't know how you introduce her unless you affect someone in her circle of people that she knows. Finn Jones, I don't know if he is.
Well, Iron Fist, I don't know how he Is he still the owner of Rand?
[00:37:10] Speaker B: So in theory, yeah, but we don't know. Right. This is the one that was cut off the. They got two seasons. But like, I would say, like, there's the most blanks to fill in with this. Right? Like, the short answer is, I don't know how I think they could get away with more revisionist history on his character than any of the others.
Like Jessica Jones, I assume there's always a way in because at the end of the day, she's like a PI Right? So there's always this way in of like, if you're dealing with crime and you're dealing with sort of behavior that's outside the law, which this show always will, you just need the right sort of like, why would you go to Jessica Jones to investigate that particular person or that particular incident that doesn't seem that hard to get her in. I think your point on Cage is a great one because of the curfew. So that will leave the. Do they bring Finn Jones back? Do they hold. Do they hold Iron Fist? Do they need all of them right away? They may not. You know, that's the thing is they probably would be a mistake. Like there were people saying they were disappointed because we didn't see all of them in the finale. And I'm like, that would have felt a little rushed. No, like just to kind of have them. I think. I think a better one would have been. If they were going to do that, would have been to do something the equivalent of like the joker card, where it's just like he's. There's some Easter egg that Makes it apparent he's either going to Luke Cage's club or doing something where it's like, you know, one of them is in the ether, but they don't even put them on screen. I don't think they needed to be on screen that, that seems. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Wait for the surprise. Instead of anticipating, instead of come. Like, if we see them, if we would have saw them now and then not be in episode one or two, whatever the case may be, then we probably be like, just anticipating for that and not really caring too much or not really focusing too much on how this all transpires. You know, some people just want to see their heroes on screen and, and do whatever. But there's a, there's a, there's a. I think there's a way to do it so that when we do see that, that, that possibility of him recruiting those guys and how they do it, that's going to be cool. Similar the way, you know, Nick Fury was at the end recruiting and, and, and you're gonna see Daredevil probably, who knows, talking to them and finding out whether or not they want to participate in this, I guess, rebellion or whatever. But yeah, I like the way they ended it. And again, even the, the, even the, the showrunner was like, if we show those guys, it's going to give people hope. Right now they're in a place where is like the odds against them are like Buster Douglas type odds. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, so they have to make it seem like, oh, when they do come, that eruption of emotion happens right then there and not prior to.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: So my only, My only thing was after they revealed this whole Red Hook thing was I kept thinking of. I don't know if you watched Yellowstone at all, but I kept thinking of the train station in Yellowstone. So that's the, like, strip of land in Montana where there's no legal jurisdiction. So, like, every time there was a murder, they would take all the bodies to the ravine and dump them there because there was no way to actually, like, probably prosecute any, any evidence or any crimes. And that's effectively what Kingpin's doing. Right? They basically have created this little, like, window within the New York port system where they can kind of just run everything without being. Without having legal oversight. So that then led to, like, me retconning, like, the. Why didn't he just sort of. Why didn't, why didn't they just do all of their nasty business, like, in that little, like, little area? Like, no one could have stopped them even if they found out. But anyway, I guess we'll see how they, how they sort that out in future seasons. But yeah, I would say slow play the defenders. That's my thing, you know, don't rush it. You know, give, you know, tease them, tease them. Maybe throw one in there for a little bit, you know, in season two. But yeah, we don't need to see the, we don't need to see the team up right away. Daredevil still needs room to breathe himself.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys thought of Episode nine and the season overall. And are you looking forward to season I call it Season one Part two.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what you should.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: I guess for that. Yeah.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it would have been more impactful if they would have called the season one Part two. But the season two doesn't seem appropriate. But I give you go again, if you think about Game of Thrones and how they do things like again the seasons and when they end, they end on a big somber note sometimes, you know, and then they move on to the next season and whatever happens there. But yeah, overall I thought it was a decent season, not the season. I thought it wasn't a cohesive season. There were some problems, obviously, if you listen to our shows, what the problems were or the concerns that we had, but they were able to get us back to I think almost Netflix type quality.
But season two will get us to a point perhaps that it gets to that bar exceeds it. But the situations there, the scenarios, they are very much more problematic than in prior seasons. So this is going to be very interesting. But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys thought and then we'll see you next time on the Nugget Report.
