Superman Teaser Drama + Marvel’s Biggest Fail?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerdgen Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, we got a lineup today, lots to talk about, a lot of things going on in the MCU. There has to be a title for this 80s genre of Ultron. He. Man, what's. What's. What else is going on, right? There's a bunch of stuff, right? But for now, we got with. We're gonna be talking about the Volk, Tron casting updates, a Marvel roundup cap for yet again. I don't get it, man. It's like they keep going, how much is this movie gonna end up costing them? Like really? Because you keep going. You keep on going back to the people and the people keep telling you this ain't working. And now we gotta go back for research. I was. I was talking to Tracy about a Tracy 494 and I was telling him there's a. There's a meme out there of ra, AJ and from love and hip hop. When he did his turn in love with hip hop, there was a scene that every time they cut to him, his hat was in different positions. That was the running joke for this one. If Sam Wilson's throw is not in place, we're gonna know. We're gonna see it. We're gonna see it. Especially me. Anthony Ramos says some things about how he is portraying the Hood. In my head, I was calling the Red Hood, but he wouldn know because he didn't read the comics. We'll get into that. Downey. Brian sent me the article and it read, Downy's Dr. Doom prevents Nolan Return. You know, he couldn't get into the superhero helicopter movie thing he even do. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Even Doom can't stop that helicopter. [00:01:53] Speaker A: And I read in the article that Downey is in pretty much every scene of Doomsday. We'll get into that because that is a very interesting sort of situation there because it makes me think about how much was Thanos in Infinity War, right? It was pretty much in every scene, right? Simulu given a like. But this is just the beginning. Voltron, we'll talk about that. Batman 2. There was seemingly some talks or rumors that there was that Batman 2 was going to be canceled for some reason. Whatever. Right? That's. And James Gunn came out and just spoke on it. And he also spoke on the Superman teaser. Rumors about the teaser not going or not hitting with the executives and them asking for a better teaser. That's. We'll get into that. Finally. We'll get into spider verse. Three problems. They can't seem to get it. They don't seem to know how to land the plane. They want to land it. They just don't know how to. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:18] Speaker A: And it's gonna take us much longer to get to see this finale in this trilogy of films that has done very well for Sony, but they seem not to be able to get this together. Reshoots Cap for Brian. When I read this and Tracy sent. Tracy sent it to the. To the chat, me and Freddie were chiming in on. On the craziness of what is Cap four, we got reshoots happening again. Because the test screening failed yet again. All I have to say is how long? Or ask. I have to question how long has this been in production? This is crazy. Brian, what's going on? [00:04:05] Speaker B: Cut to Maximus in the tunnel. This is not it. [00:04:08] Speaker A: This is not it. [00:04:10] Speaker B: I also had a little I told you so when this story hit. Because when they cut the trailer, which admittedly looks sharp, I said on the show, don't conflate Marvel's ability to cut a great trailer with the idea that the movie's been fixed, that we're going to get a great movie. And I said, my concerns still stand about too many characters, too many plot lines. Is Red Hulk going to work? Not enough. Maybe trust being placed in Anthony Mackie to actually be the lead character. Echoes of Winter Soldier with some of the casting. And now we find out they already basically. And they already basically redid this entire movie. Right? There's a whole. Somewhere on the cutting room floor, there's a whole Serpent Society. Big plotline that they wiped out in order to just bring in Giancarlo Esposito in the second attempt. And now we find out that the latest attempt has been poorly received. And Pablo, again, test screenings are meant to unearth flaws. Let's be honest. Like, you don't go to a test screening to be told you're amazing. You want to be told what's wrong so that you can make a better film. But there's been a common denominator to all of these test screenings. That, to me, is the red flag. So if you remember, in the first one, one of the things that people cited was lack of chemistry between the leads and that the movie was, quote, boring. That word was used, boring. Captain America 4. So this time around, the words coming out inessential and flat, which is the same thing, they have not been able to energize the audience with anything of what they're seeing. And Pablo, that is the biggest concern, you can't special effect your way out of that one. You can't really recast your way out of that one at this point. That means that, like, the ingredients that you've put in the food just don't make for anything delicious. [00:06:10] Speaker A: And it's too late to save. I watch enough cooking shows to be like, if it's done, you just gotta plate it and take the L. That's right. I hope you can come back and hope someone has something worse. [00:06:24] Speaker B: That's the problem. There's no other team that they could. Judges can send home. [00:06:30] Speaker A: This. Wow. Ah. All I can say that it sucks for. I feel sorry for Anthony Mackie. He probably is fine because he's getting that check. As long as that check clears, he's happy. But I just think that this just doesn't do well for what Marvel is trying to attempt to do with re energizing the fan base. And this could certainly. The Thunderbolts could re energize somewhat because we've heard that the test screenings for that has gone well for Cap, for. For Sam Wilson and all those people in that movie, those characters in that movie. I think we've reached a point where people we've Dark Phoenix did. We don't care about what happens in this world. We don't have. We probably don't care what about what happens next. We just don't care. [00:07:22] Speaker B: Again, I really don't think this is a reflection of Mackie, who is. I mean, to make Anthony Mackie not charismatic, you got to do some work. To be quite honest, to make Danny Ramirez boring, you got to do some work. I mean, they got some people in this movie who can. Who can. Who can hit. What's interesting to me, though, is, again, it just feels like it's the recurring Marvel problem of the idea. Right? We've got flawed ideas. When you start with flawed ideas, it's kind of hard to get great outcome. You know, I get it. Harrison Ford was only pressed into the role because of life because William Hurt was taken from us. But the idea of Red Hulk as one of the foils in this movie, I think is debatable at best. Insisting on the return of the leader from a movie that nobody's really hanging on to. Like, you know, I like the Incredible Hulk. I like rewatching the Incredible Hulk, but that doesn't mean I need to see all of the characters from the Incredible Hulk brought back. And if we're getting Liv Tyler and we're getting Tim Roth and now we're getting Tim Blake Nelson. I'm kind of like, why? I didn't need that. I'm okay with you leaving them on the shelf. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:33] Speaker B: And then you throw in Giancarlo Esposito again. Never bad. But what is he actually adding? And it's just. [00:08:39] Speaker A: It feels like a mess. [00:08:41] Speaker B: Right? That's what say it feels like a mess. Yeah. It's just like I'm being distracted and pulled in all these different directions. And at the end of the day, it's supposed to be a Captain America movie, but you don't seem to want to put it on Captain America. Now, I got to give you a couple quotes. These are individual reactions from the test screening. So don't read these as it's not an executive. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:02] Speaker B: This is one person sharing their reaction on socials to what they saw. So, number one, this is a quote. I think the first mistake is that they don't have Captain America in the film. It's all downhill from there. Now, he doesn't explain what that means, but that's sort of, I think, shots at, like, how Sam Wilson is portrayed as Falcon slash Captain. Second one. Which is more damning. Quote, cancel it or put Chris Evans in it. Those are the only choices to avoid disaster. End quote. Wow. Now, I don't agree with that because, like, you gotta let these people go at some point. It can't just be like the original actors, and we're already struggling with that with the Avengers and Downey. But I think what it's saying is part of the issue is the fans are having a tough time accepting that Chris Evans shadow is. Is looming over that role, and it's making it tough for the way Sam is being portrayed in that capacity. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Will we be having a different conversation? Because I know this keeps coming up. Will we be having a different conversation if Sam Wilson got the serum? [00:10:08] Speaker B: I think that's tbd, to be honest, because I think it depends on how the action is written. Now, Anthony Mackie has told us the action is scripted in a way that honors the fact that he doesn't have the serum. Right. So I could argue to you that's actually could be compelling that you could make a scene of him solving the problem of not being able to call on that strength, but we don't know that. We haven't really seen it. He's only been capped for, like, an episode, like, a single fight scene, which wasn't all that inspiring. And obviously the suit is very souped up in this one. Like, he seems like he can fly supersonic, like he could do things with this suit that he couldn't do with the original Falcon suit. So it remains to be seen how cool that's going to look or believable that's going to look on screen. But there's a whiff here of this isn't really Captain America I'm being shown. And you know, I mean, there's a lot of layers to that probably, but some of it feels to me again like they're not putting the spotlight fully on Mackie in this movie to be that. [00:11:17] Speaker A: I guess we'll have to wait and see. Because I do want to give Anthony Mackie a shot at his portrayal in the movie. You know, I don't want it to be one of those unfortunate disasters and him being the focal point of it. You know, this is where the writing. [00:11:34] Speaker B: And the ideas fail you. It's like if I took Chris Evans and I put and I put him in Ragnarok, that doesn't really work. Right. Because there's things in that challenge, in that quest that require Thor's power. Right. So it's like that's where the he. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Would be out of place. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah. The stakes and the idea match the hero. You know, Winter Soldiers perfect. Because it's the perfect stakes for Captain America to deal with. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:02] Speaker B: If you're challenging Anthony Mackie with super powered villains right and left, like is that fair to a non superpowered Captain America? I would say no. Then I'd be like, he should be calling what's her face Gaia or whatever her name is from Secret Invasion. Just call her in for two sec. Tag her in for two seconds. We get rid of Red Hulk right quick. [00:12:24] Speaker A: It'll be interesting to see how he defeats or handles his foes in this. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Exactly. And to your point about cost, I don't care what Marvel's reported budget on this is. It is 250 or higher, minimum. They've shot three different movies at this point. They need this to do 700, 800 to make money. It's not doing that. [00:12:53] Speaker A: When Kevin first mentioned Serpent Society long, long time ago, it was meant as a joke. It should have stayed a joke. I would have never done a Serpent Society film because especially with Kaep not there. Like, who cares about these dudes? This is. We have to wait and see. But from what, from where we're sitting, Captain America for Brave New World has been in trouble for a very, very long time. And it continues to show problems that I don't think are fixable at this point. They're gonna probably just have to, again, deal with what they got and show it and. And. And take the criticisms, perhaps even learn from them for the future. I don't know. But right now, you. You cannot continue remaking this movie. Anthony Mac is gonna age before our very eyes in this film. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the sad thing is, as usual with Marvel these days, I feel like some of the seeds of what could have made sense are right there in front of them, but they refuse to take it. Maybe because they're desperate. They feel like bigger is always better now. But, like, if I think back to Avengers 1, there's a little scene in Avengers 1 which I think is. It says a lot, where they're fighting the. They're fighting the Chitauri in New York, and the New York cops are listening to Cap give the orders, and the guy's like, why should I follow you? And then he promptly beats up a couple of the Chitauri. And then the guy immediately is like, all right, all right, I get it. We need that moment on screen. If you take the world as it is, he should be fighting the uphill battle of he's not Steve Rogers. Why should we. Why should everyone be listening? So if you built the movie just around that, of these, like, little challenges, these internal challenges, and then this one external challenge that makes sense, that he could sort of overcome that adversity and prove. And by the way, that's a better. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Movie already they've shown in. [00:15:02] Speaker B: When we introduced. When we get introduced to Sam Wilson, remember, one of his great strengths is he's over at the VA helping PTSD soldiers. So he is showing a different form of leadership than Steve. To me, that's what I mean. Like, there's things there that you can make a movie that deals with the shadow of Chris Evans, of Steve Rogers, and gives Sam Wilson a hill to climb there that doesn't involve him fighting 27 different superpower bad guys. Like, it just feels like we're skipping a lot of steps. And maybe that's part of what the audience is kind of saying. Like, why do I care? Like, this is not. I can't. I can't connect to the humanity of this story in the way that I could with Cap 1, Cap 2, and Cap 3. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:45] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah. When does that movie come out? [00:15:50] Speaker B: February. That's the other thing. They're reshooting this in December. You know how chopped up that could look from an effects perspective? If they're really putting stuff, new stuff in front of the camera now and they don't move that date off of. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Valentine's Day, only true fans are gonna go see this movie. Why? To see what this looks like and what a movie put together like this looks like. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Buzz is bad, man. I mean, maybe the reviews will exceed the lower bars, but I'm not optimistic. Like, if this comes out with like 45, 50 type, you know, rotten tomatoes, and critics are kind of basically lamenting poor effects or shoddy editing, I think this thing crashes and burns. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of the cap for reshoots. After another poor testing, February will be the time to really give our thoughts on what this is or what this was or what this could have been. Anthony Ramos speaks the unspeakable. [00:16:48] Speaker B: I guess I should give him credit for being honest. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Maybe he. He. He's. I mean, I've seen him in interviews, and he's pretty honest about how he feels and how he goes about doing things. And he was very honest about this. Asked about whether he had read the comics for the hood, he responds, brian, negative ghostwriter. [00:17:13] Speaker B: The pattern is full. He literally says, I did not dive into the comics. I just focused on my character and just follow the script. But it was also like, yo, how do I make him singular? How do I make him different? Parker Robinson in the comics is from New York. Our guy is from Chicago, and our show is set there. So I just wanted to make him super dynamic, like every character. I just see how I relate to him, and I try to put as much of myself in the character. I think that was how I looked at it, but for sure, I referenced the comics. He has a certain look, but, you know, in the comics, he looks different than me. So it was cool being able to recreate this guy. End quote. So if you had comics accurate hood in this series, you lost. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you're not going to get that. You're just going to get the hood. You're not going to get the little things that make the hood who he is in the comic book. Forget about that. Let's see. Based on his performances and things that I've seen him do, he's going to give us a lot of him, and I'm not going for that. I'm going to see the characters that from the comics reinvented done better. Perhaps he'll do that. I don't know. But based on what I've seen before, I don't think we're gonna get that. Obviously, they're looking towards young Avengers and stuff like that. We're definitely getting a story on that. And as we talked about it last. Last week, you know, they going about it the right way, so to speak, right? Oh, not a right. I think I said not the right way, but a. A better way. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Better way. Yeah. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:50] Speaker B: So they're open to making a Disney plus series instead of just, you know, launching it into a film franchise right away. But yeah, look, I mean, neither of us are that excited for the show. We haven't. We've seen little bits and pieces of footage now with the Disney plus trailer. But, you know, like Anthony Ramos, like, even dating back to his work in Hamilton. You're right. I mean, I kind of feel like there is similarity to the way he plays roles. Like, is he really that. Like, he's a little different between his Transformers character and his Twisters character as an example, but he's not radically different. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Like, in the Heights, it was him. He was supposed to be playing a Dominican, but he was. He was. You know, he spoke like a Puerto Rican. So that was one of the things that turned me off about it. [00:19:28] Speaker B: You could say on the one hand, we have a pretty. We have a long list of people that have gone all the way down the rabbit hole of comics of the characters they're playing and still not delivered transcendent performance. But it's a take to go to a genre where fan base is a big deal and basically say, I really don't care about what the legacy of the. Or, you know, of the legacy of this character. I'm just. Whatever's on the page, I'm going to make myself into that character. I mean, there's clearly a segment of the fan base that will automatically be turned off by anyone who takes that approach. It doesn't mean it'll be terrible. It just. It's a take to basically say, like, I will not look at the source material to formulate this. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah, let's see, Ryan. Let's see Downey, apparently too busy to be in Nolan. Superhero. No, super helicopter movie. Because he's busy doing Doom in Avengers Doomsday. Right? [00:20:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:35] Speaker A: And apparently he is gone. He is pretty much in every scene of Avengers Doomsday. Yeah, we're sort of. When I read it, that piece in the article, it reminded me of Thanos and his appearance in pretty much every scene. And. And, you know, showstopper scene stealer Downey is looking to do the same with a different portrayal of a character whom we don't understand why he was the one chosen. But we get it because I was watching Iron Man 3, which I really didn't like too much. Yeah, but watching him, Brian was always fascinating. Is that what Marvel is hoping for? That he captivates the audience with his portrayal of a character? Brian, that I don't see him having too much problem playing in Tony Stark. And there are certain things about the Doom character that you know, I am looking for your thoughts, Brian, on this news that he may be in every scene in Avengers Doomsday. [00:22:01] Speaker B: I don't think it's so. On the one hand, I don't think it's that surprising. I think we're getting our answer when we, when we heard about some of the details of the contract of like how much is he, how much is he working? He's working a lot. I think the Thanos analogy is the correct one. Obviously he doesn't have the benefit of any of the teasers or lead ins that Josh Brolin got. Not his fault. Obviously the Jonathan Mate. By the way, you saw the Chargers were dropped against Jonathan Majors. So I don't know where that how that kind of shakes out. But when that happened this past week. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Wait, that's Kang's music. [00:22:51] Speaker A: That would be crazy. If he came out in the movie. That would be. Oh my God, everybody will go crazy. Became less old and less. Anyway. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Anyway, so. And we had heard this previous report that in the shooting schedule, Downey was basically shooting the full length. And these. The Avengers would come in for like a month at a time, but he would be on set the whole time. So now we hear that because of the scheduling calendar, he can't do the Chris Nolan movie. Obviously he won an Oscar for him and Oppenheimer, so no surprise they would want to work together again because he's got it. He's already contractually obligated to do Doom. This goes to my point of when this happened of what is Disney thinking and what is Marvel thinking. Right? And that's what makes this whole exercise it's. This whole exercise is kind of like a giant fourth wall break to me. Because I think part of what you're talking about, part of what Disney is counting on is the emotional impact to the audience of seeing Robert Downey as the villain in the same universe where he was the ultimate hero. That is not an now unless he's playing a Tony Stark variant, which they say he's not. But let's not totally take it at face value. If he's not playing a Tony Stark variant, that same emotional resonance will not be there for any of the Avengers because they will not have a history with Victor Von Doom. If he is playing Tony Stark variant, then that same emotional shock value will be present for some of the cast members in the way that it is for the audience. But at least on the surface, the real impact is to us as consumers of seeing him on the other side of the table now, him being in every scene. Pablo, to me, I think, also underscores this recurring theme we've talked about, which is Disney knows it has a weak lineup. What choice do they have? See the luxury in Infinity War. I know Thanos is in it a lot, but it's not like you're sitting there in the scenes that he's absent, just waiting for him to show up again. Because there's the train fights. There's a train station fight scene with a bunch of our heroes coming back, including a bearded cat. Everyone's cheering when he comes out of the shadows, right? There's a moment where, you know, Iron man says, earth is closed today. That's a great fight scene with Spider man and the Hulk that won't come out. And I, you know, that's. My point is, like those scenes where Thanos is not present, we are completely immersed because we have our heroes and we're invested in those characters. We don't have that in Avengers 5. We do not. Maybe we have it with Tom Holland, Spider Man. Maybe we still have it with Chris Hemsworth if he, if he's, if he's doing it. But, like, there's not a lot left. We don't have it with Brie Larson, you know, even Dr. Strange. We sort of have it. Maybe. But, like, my point is they need Downey to carry this. He has to be in every scene because he has to be the thing that keeps the movie interesting, that prevents it from test screening and being like Cat 4 and being called boring and flat. And can you imagine the impact of an Avengers movie being called boring? [00:26:16] Speaker A: The thing that I have thought about most about this Doom portrait, every time I think about it, every time I see that picture of him with his arm spread with the, with the dude at that, at that Comic Con, I'm like, what? Why? I'm still in shock. [00:26:39] Speaker B: So this goes to a question I asked the day this came out. And I said at the time, the more Robert Downey is in this movie, the more I would question how much he's going to be in the mask. So if it's a two and a half hour movie, well, let's say he's on screen for an hour and 45 to an hour to two hours. Do you honestly think that 90 plus percent of that time he's not going to show his face? [00:27:07] Speaker A: This is Judge Dredd all over again. [00:27:09] Speaker B: And that's the concern. Now, I would pitch him on for you as an Academy Award winning actor. That's the challenge. The challenge for you is to do it without your face. Sell people with your, your gestures, your voice. But I don't think his ego will allow it. I think you're getting a lot of Downey's face because Disney wants you to see the face of Tony Stark on the, on the body of the villain. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Therefore, you're disrespecting the Doom character. In my opinion, that's the concern. And you're only doing it because of the business aspect of it. I get it. [00:27:53] Speaker B: And the Judge dread analogy is 100% the right one. And by the way, Dread is a billion times better than Judge Dredd. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker B: And Carl Urban never takes off his helmet because he understands and loves the character. Now let me throw this at you. What if he's really good, but you are seeing his face the majority of the time? Can you live with it? Can you get past the fact that Doom's supposed to be unmask and he's probably not going to be unmasked a lot of the time, but let's say he does. He does. He's not playing a Tony Stark variant. He's playing Victor von Doom. And he does an accent and he delivers something different than we've seen him do in his previous Marvel work. Can you live with it? [00:28:35] Speaker A: I'll say this. You know how much I enjoyed and the, the Penguin. You know how much we applauded the, the, the, the performers. Everything about that show was amazing. But if you've been watching this show, there was something that was missing for me. Just knowing that he played Tony Stark. We get. And to me, you're just not doing the Victor von Doom that I thought the Marvel people, the MCU would give us. Instead, we're getting a desperate attempt at getting people back in the theaters to watch Robert Downey Jr. Because that's what, that's what was selling tickets at the time for Iron man and for Infinity War. Robert Downey's portrayal, RDJ's portrayal of Tony Stark was just everything in the MCU. I don't know, it just feels weird. It feels weird to have him play Doom, even though, let's say, and I've thought about it, let's say he is dope. It's like, okay, we're seeing him for Doomsday and then Secret Wars. Then what? Now we get in the Mutant Sag. Fine. I like the Mutants, but what about Doom? What about Fantastic Four? What about all these other characters? Do they exist in this world? This is a conversation that we talked about last time. [00:30:08] Speaker B: That's why I have a tough time seeing this being the legitimate Victor von Doom. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:14] Speaker B: But at the same time, they're almost creating the next problem in the sense of his shadow obviously looms incredibly large on the hero side. Now his shadow is going to loom large on the villain side. So could you, you know, how do you introduce the comics accurate Victor von Doom down the road once he does this? Like, I don't know. I mean, I think they have to wait a long time for that. But I would say the weirdness feeling, though Disney would say that means we're. We're. We've. We're doing something right. If you're feeling weird right now, they probably would say, we want that. [00:30:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Because the curiosity is there. The curiosity to see what this looks like is there. Everybody's going to go see this. This is the moneymaker. No question about it. People are going to be. Not necessarily. I mean, there's some people that are excited, but certainly there's a lot of people like myself that are confused and want to see what this is going to look like. People waiting to hear what the reviews are going to be of his portrayal. People cannot wait. [00:31:10] Speaker B: I think it's that also what Down. What we associate Downey with as an actor, predominantly because he's been the Tony Stark character for much of the last 20 years, is there is a version of Robert Downey Jr. That is wrong for Doom, hands down. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:27] Speaker B: And we're not. We don't feel safe. Like, let me draw an extreme example. If this was Daniel Day Lewis, I would have no concerns. Why? Because that guy transforms into totally different people. So you can't say there's a typecast Daniel Day Lewis style. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Right. [00:31:44] Speaker B: But with Robert Downey, there is one now he's created this archetype with his Tony Stark character to where you kind of ask like. Like Oppenheimer was somewhat of a departure from that. But Victor Von Doom is way far removed from Tony. So that's where it's like, there's a version of this where it could go very badly. That's what has us nervous. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Can you imagine? And then we'll move on to another problem. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Related to this, by the way. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Could you imagine that? We see the reviews and we see the horror show right before Our very eyes of what's happening with this franchise. It can get ugly. It can get ugly. I am at the state of where we were totally wrong with no Way Home. We had concern. I am there, Brian. I am back at that same place. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Well, there's also a world where it's interesting to watch. Like how the Denzel Washington performance in Gladiator 2 is being received. It's very clear that you and I are sort of in the minority on an island. Island that like that he's interesting but not great. And the consensus is clearly he's far and away the best thing in this movie. That's literally like. I think that's like 90% plus people think that. So you and I, our reaction to it is definitely the non consensus view. There is a world where that happens too, where people are just captivated because Downey is so charismatic that he gets rave reviews for not doing a true Victor Von Doom, if that makes sense. Like people just really interested in what he does. And you and I come on here as you know, the two old dudes from the Muppets, and we're like, this is not Victor Von Doom. What are you talking about? [00:33:47] Speaker A: It'll be a very interesting episode. Yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of Downey being given the Thanos treatment. And like Thanos being Infinity War being Thanos's movie. This Doomsday is obviously, you know, this is doomsday. It's called Doomsday. So we expect to see Downey's doom in this. But where I think my. We're not surprised at this that he's in every scene. I'm just there to see what this is gonna look like, man. What this portrayal of this perfect. I want to know what let's get Doom right statement that Kevin said when this was first announced when he talked about this very thing. Now that Robert Downey Jr. Is playing Doom, he said to him, let's get Doom right. I want to see what that looks like. See, Mulu liked a comment regarding his absence in the films as of late. The non talk of a Shang Chi too. Dustin Cren pulled from that and now he's doing Spider Man. [00:35:21] Speaker B: And by the way, that's not a one movie assignment if it goes well. Case, Case. You can't figure that out, people. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Spider man is never a one. [00:35:29] Speaker B: You don't pinch hit for Spider Man. [00:35:33] Speaker A: You're there for the rest of it. Seemulu, Brian, you said he is. This could be a problem. Why do you say that? [00:35:45] Speaker B: He's pretty outspoken. [00:35:47] Speaker A: Yes, he is. [00:35:48] Speaker B: And I'm not. Listen, I don't denigrate his right to be outspoken. He has every right to do that. But what I'm suggesting is this is not the first time that he's had issues with the productive production side of something he's been a part of in the past. Obviously he drew some controversy for comments about China and so forth. That's one thing. That's his personal politics. But he was a co star on Kim's Convenience. Highly successful show out of Canada that actually took on a second life on Netflix. I would highly recommend it. It is quite funny. So as that show was winding down, they tried to launch a spin off centered on a female character in the show who was the only non Asian lead. And Simu Lu blasted the creators and the producers of the show for doing that, basically calling them racist for saying, like, we're all here, we're what carried the show and you want to carry on the legacy with the one character who's not of Asian descent. He then had to sort of clarify his comments in a number of publications. You can go Google it. It's not. It's all public domain. Well within his rights as a performer to do things like that. But what I'm pointing out is when you're part of the Marvel machine, they tend not to like people who rock the boat. See Norton comma Edward. And so I'm just saying that, like, if he gets recast or if this franchise go doesn't get a sequel, it's like one of the few entries that just is kind of dies on the mind. And by the way, let's not forget the original track for him was Shang Chi 1. I never knew this, but apparently Shangchi 2. There was expectations they were going to announce it at Comic con, like in 2022, and then that got scrapped. His director was supposed to direct Avengers 5, in which he was supposed to be the new Steve Rogers, Avengers type leader, and his 10 rings were supposed to have ties to Kang. That was that whole credit scene with the little like pulpating thing in outer space. So he went from that to nothing. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker B: So I do get emotionally why you'd feel some kind of way about it. I'm just pointing out if nothing is where we stay, he will not be quiet about it. And that could be problematic for Disney. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Shall we say, explain problematic for Disney because this could be a good thing so that he steps away from the role and they cast and now they can watch Shang Chi 2 or Shang Chi whatever in China. [00:38:43] Speaker B: I just mean it could be another Ed Norton. That's why I draw the Ed Norton comparison. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Ed Norton's really the only character or only actor or character where Kevin Feige made a public statement basically saying, I will never work with this guy again. And he was the problem. Yeah, I, that's where I could see this heading and seemingly would be. I could see him being active on socials, criticizing, you know, basically saying that there were, that there were discriminatory reasons why his character didn't get a follow up. Like, I could see that because this is in the resume already. And what he has going for him is, I know you are again on the island and don't, don't like the movie very much, but his movie is the best reviewed Marvel movie post Endgame. For that didn't include no Way Home, which is part Sony. His movie is the best reviewed movie by far. That's the one thing he has on his slate is like, he's gonna be like, look, we made money during the pandemic when theaters were 60% open and critics loved our movie. How is it we can't get a follow up? That's what he has in his quiver. [00:39:54] Speaker A: But in past conversation, I think this is still a problem with Marvel and not being able to, or not being given the permission to play their movie in China because of what he said and him not wanting or not even thinking about apologizing. Right. That's a problem when it comes to business. I think that is the biggest issue. There's no other issue other than that. [00:40:19] Speaker B: And that goes to the Norton point. Right? Like at some point it's just like the studio is bigger than any one actor. And ed Norton's at 2008 would have been a lot more powerful than Simu Lou would be today a much bigger star. So. Well, there's the other thing. Let's say they give him. Well, he kind of has to be at Avengers 5 and 6 somewhere, right? So if they give him a really small part and he just shows up in some of the, some of the sort of group collective scenes, is he gonna play ball in a promotional tour about that or is he gonna grouse? See what I'm saying? Like, that's where it's like, you know. [00:40:58] Speaker A: I don't think so. I think, I think he'll play ball. And, and, and I don't know, maybe. [00:41:04] Speaker B: They won't send him out, maybe they won't let him promote. I mean, that could be the other thing. But that's my point is like, if they don't do that. Then I could see him liking comments on socials because there'll be. Fans will be like, yo, where's Simulu? Promote this movie? Wasn't he. He's gonna put some thumbs up and you. And there's gonna be controversy all over this is my point is that I feel like this guy will be in the news for not all the right reasons. As long as this thing is twisting the way it is. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker B: And if they cancel it, then it'll. Yeah, it'll come to a head. But I just. There's no charging too. Is not happening. Like, where's the. There's no more. It's not happening under the banner of what they've done already. Destin Cretton is not going to do it. And Simulu is not going to be like reprising the role 10 years from now in the second movie. It's going to be a restarted Shangchi down the road with someone else. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Yes, and I'm fine with it. [00:41:52] Speaker B: And I'm not saying exactly. I'm not saying that's a bad outcome for us. I'm just saying that could be a sticky one for, like, if a lawsuit was filed, it wouldn't shock me. [00:42:04] Speaker A: But a lawsuit for what? [00:42:06] Speaker B: I don't know, wrongful termination or like discriminatory workplace. I'm just saying, like, I, you know, it wouldn't shock me. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Nah, I don't know if it's gonna go that far. [00:42:16] Speaker B: I mean, Scarlett went. I mean, Scarlett was friends, right? And that went to a huge, huge legal kerfuffle that. [00:42:23] Speaker A: Yes, yes. But there you can understand, hey, I put out Black Widow right before Infinity War. I make my billion dollars fair. My points fair. That's automatic. Instead they give her to Captain Marvel. So there was a reason for that. So I get that one. But this one, you're dealing with someone who is, again, like you said, very outspoken and could be a problem in terms of how he perceives things and, and his perspective on things and how other people may amp it up. [00:43:02] Speaker B: I'm just saying there was no, nothing in Scarlett Johansson's resume as an actress or in her relationship with Disney to suggest that things were problematic. And when that went sideways, it became very ugly and very public. [00:43:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:43:13] Speaker B: I'm just saying, you got an actor here who was already in his career, made waves for these types of reasons, and you're basically cutting off his big star turn, his big break. [00:43:26] Speaker A: I mean, he, I think he got his big break because he's been you know, doing the circuits and singing. And he probably got out. [00:43:35] Speaker B: I guess he was in Barbie too. But I mean, he's not like, you know, Gosling's the Ken that everyone remembers. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll see what happens with Shang Chi. Next up, Voltron. Sterling K. Brown has been cast. Right. [00:43:59] Speaker B: I don't even care as what. I saw this headline. I said it to you. I was like, what? [00:44:05] Speaker A: I was looking up the character Brian, because we talked about him when we talked about Voltron and some of the characters. No Quran. [00:44:13] Speaker B: Oh, you think he's the mentor? [00:44:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:44:16] Speaker B: He's so. It's funny you said that. I definitely think he has to be one of those two. He has to be like the senior on either side. I think that's the right answer. So maybe you're right. Maybe it's Corona. Maybe he's a good guy. I could see him being Zarkon. I can see him being evil too, and unhinged, because that's a. Mostly I figured that's gonna be like a Thanos style, somewhat CGI motion capture character. So the key to Zarkon becomes the voice. And Sterling K. Brown certainly has an amazing voice. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:42] Speaker B: But he could be Quran too. He could be crying. Yeah. He could be a gentle, more gentler mentor figure as well. [00:44:48] Speaker A: They haven't entirely announced all of the cast. There's only been Henry Cavill now Sterling K. Brown, the young kid, the newcomer that worked with Tom Holland on. On Stage or whatever it was. Understudy or something like that. [00:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Oh, and Princess, possibly Allura. [00:45:08] Speaker B: Oh, did it. Well, they have a lot of cast members listed. We just don't know exactly who they're. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Who they are. [00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah, but they're casting pretty aggressively. It just. The story, like Sterling K. Brown and Henry Cavill in a Voltron movie is sort of eye opening. And it goes to the point of like, okay, so we've got Idris Elba as Man at Arms, and we've got Henry Cavill as Turley K. Brown. Like, these people are not really messing around with these iPad. [00:45:37] Speaker A: They're going after good, good actors is what I can. All I can see in there. For me, all I can say is I think that they're making a good effort at making this movie. Good. And the director of Voltron, he's done with him from. With the Millers and also he's done. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Some of the rocks. He's done some of the rocks movies. He's best known for that. [00:45:58] Speaker A: I. But you know what? [00:46:00] Speaker B: But you're Giving. [00:46:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm getting anybody. Yes. Anybody who's worked with Dwayne. I give him a pass because I would say they never. They didn't have any say. They just did what the Rock said. Whatever. [00:46:11] Speaker B: You think he's going to sit around with Henry Cavill on that set and share stories? [00:46:15] Speaker A: Oh, hell's yeah. You saw one thing. You saw what he tried to do to me. Did you see what he tried to do to me? I'm pretty sure they're going to talk about. I wish I was there to be like. Yeah, yeah, because it's true, man. [00:46:30] Speaker B: So we don't know. It's like. Like, they also announced, like, it's a random mix. They announced, like, the British singer Rita Aura is also in. In Voltron playing. I don't know, the witch. I don't know who she's playing. Right. I don't think she's playing Allura, but, like, she's a little old for that. It's just one of those mixes that, like, catches your attention. You're just sort of like, I gotta find out what they're doing with this and this. Put it this way, I understand that you think that franchises are paychecks, but let's not get it twisted. Voltron is not the same as getting in a Batman movie. There's a lot more risk to being in a Voltron movie. Which tells me that, like, for them to sign on to this, I have a tough time believing Amazon is just paying out the nose. So the script must have something interesting in it that, like, Sterling K. Brown's like, I want to do this. [00:47:15] Speaker A: I would want to have a conversation. Well, how much do you know about. Do you know about Vulture? [00:47:20] Speaker B: Well, he might because he's, like, a little older than we are. So, like, he could be a closet huge Voltron fan. We don't know that. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to know that. [00:47:29] Speaker B: Greet or is definitely not. She's like 33. Like, there's no way that she. She would be that. But. All right, so I gotta ask you a question, because we don't have, like, major casting for Thundercats. We just know it's happening. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:40] Speaker B: So it's kind of hard. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Is that supposed to be a live action or an anime did sort of situation? [00:47:47] Speaker B: I thought it was straddling the line of both. Right. Isn't that the whole, like, it's almost like watching the Godzilla vs. Kong movie. But. But I think there's supposed to be, like, actual actors in it. Live action CGI hybrid is the official description. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Okay. [00:48:02] Speaker B: So here's my question. Because we don't know the cast obviously, with that. But so you got he man, you got Voltron and you got Thundercats all in production at the same time. And if you want to give me GI Joe Transformers crossover, I'll even throw that in the mix too, because it's the right era. Give me your power ranking for most likely to be a box office hit. Like top to bot. Like, who's the most likely? Who's the lead? Who's the least like of those four? Because they're all going to basically come out probably within a 12 to 24 month period. So we got he man Voltron, Thundercats, and the G.I. joe Transformers crossover. [00:48:43] Speaker A: I'm gonna go with let's start at the bottom. GI Joe Transformers is at the bottom for me. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:53] Speaker A: Next is the Thundercats, because that's, that's. That's hard for me. That's hard. And you're doing a hybrid. So I don't know where. I don't know where I'm at. I'm excited that they're doing it, but in terms of a success, I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to tell, but with these other ones, Voltron and he man, I said before I was getting that Super Mario Brothers itch. Voltron and he man have a potential to give you that movie magic, to give you that spectacle, to give you that again. We were even doing it in unison and we even plan it when we said form blaming sword. You watch our other sword, our other show. That's what you want to hear. Because everybody in this in the theaters is gonna. Especially people our age. And I have grown up with Voltron. We're gonna go to the theaters to see that. [00:49:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:48] Speaker A: To see by the power of grace what we even get in messages in the universe. It was whack when we did it. I think they did do it, but it was whack. I have the power. That's what he said. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:59] Speaker A: He didn't even say by the power of grace, go graceful. We didn't see Cringer transformed. [00:50:03] Speaker B: There was no Cringer at all. [00:50:05] Speaker A: Exactly. Again, Ryan, if they go towards the path of giving us an Eternia making, he man hit all those beats. He'll hit all those nostalgic beats. He man can do. He make PG 13. [00:50:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:50:25] Speaker A: They can be huge. It can be huge. Voltron is another one, I think, because we've seen a lot of similarities. We've seen the Kaiju, we've seen all these other films that can remind us and we can put Voltron in its place. I don't think we've seen anything like he man yet. You're again. Again is he Man. But he man could be a fun time if they do it right, Brian. And so can Voltron and so can Voltron. But I'm giving he man the edge because it's something we've never seen. I giving he man the edge because if they do this right, Brian, it could be a fun time at the theaters in I don't between he man and Voltron, but I'm giving it to he man. Voltron second, Thundercats third and GI Joe Transformers four. [00:51:15] Speaker B: So we agree on GI Joe Transformers. It's not necessarily fair because that's the only IP that's been around in live action for now almost, you know, 15 plus years. So part of the reason I think we both have it at the bottom is the audience is clearly indicating it's tired of this, even if some of the recent efforts have been better. And we've never seen GI Joe done successfully in live action, even though it seems like it ought to be easy. And. And that'll make me mad because I feel like I would much rather see a serious take on GI Joe than see this crossover. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Which kind of feels like Godzilla versus Kong, you know, but minus the fun. So that's definitely my number four. I think Voltron's number one. I actually don't think it's that close. And the reason I say that is because to me, you get the kids easily because the. If the cast is young, which it should be like that. That's key. But now you have the anchors. Right. You have the Henry Cavill Sterling K. Browns you're kind of casting up. I think there is still a difference between Voltron and any other Kaiju that we've seen. The assembly of the lions, to me, makes it different. And if you do that right, if you have good lion action and then you have the assembly and I just think Power Rangers is so campy from an effects perspective that this would not have any trouble differentiating if the effects are good to where people are like, whoa, you can sell a ton of merch off it. You. So I to me, Voltron's number one. I know. See this arg. This whole discussion is probably not fair to Thundercats because we know the least about it. Right. We're just conject. I would have Thundercats second. I really would. I just think the characters are a little easier to translate than some of the he man characters. The Heman has Got more silly to it to me than thunder. [00:53:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:53:12] Speaker B: And so I feel like the use of animals and, like, you could create some fun action using, you know, Panthro or, you know, Chitara or Lionel. It's just there's something about that, to me, that, like, you can tap into that could get people's attention to where it's like, wait, I'm kind of watching something like the Avengers or Justice League. But the. The characters are all, you know, they're kind of like predators, if a way. I don't know. There's something about that that I think could be really, to your point, Different. That could be different. So I'd have that second. I put he man third. Just because I feel like you. I do feel like it's an uphill climb, character wise to say, to go with a straight face to comic Con and say we were true to the spirit of Ram man or true to the spirit of merman and show me, you know, like, I had so much fun with those toys, but it just feels like it's a battle to bring those to a serious place. Although, like I said, it does have. It does have the best director on the list. The case for he man is Travis Knight. He's. Of the four filmmakers, he is far and away the best one. And that's. That's your argument. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Last thing before we move on to Batman 2. Have you thought about your cast for Thundercats? [00:54:25] Speaker B: No. It's funny. We were talking about it now, and I'm like, no, now I got to get serious about what Academy Award nominated. I know you have the one for Panther, which, by the way, showed up in Gladiator 2. [00:54:35] Speaker A: Yes. [00:54:35] Speaker B: It still doesn't look like he's aged today. Peter. His first name is Peter. I don't know his last name. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Peter Mensa. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Perfect for Panther. I would say Aaron Pierre will be perfect for Lionel. [00:54:51] Speaker B: I don't hate that at all. [00:54:55] Speaker A: Emily Blunt for Chitara, maybe. [00:54:58] Speaker B: That would be hilarious. If she doesn't do Black Widow and she does Thundercats movie. [00:55:05] Speaker A: Could you think. Are you thinking they're making Thundercats similar to how they've used the tech for Avatar? [00:55:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's like Avatar, Thanos, Incredible Hulk. I think it's that. I think it's that. Andy Serkis. Andy Serkis. That's what I'm thinking in my mind. That. That style of motion capture, that'll be interesting. [00:55:25] Speaker A: Batman 2. There have been rumors. There was some rumor that Batman 2 was in the works or had been canceled, and James Gunn came out and told everyone that's not true. Brian, what have you heard and what has been said about this? [00:55:41] Speaker B: So there's kind of like a weird two layer thing to this that's been going on. This is not the first time this has come up. Now the first time it came up was somewhat legitimate because we had heard no updates. And this was after James Gunn had announced chapter one. Gods and Monsters and Brave and the Bold and like we didn't hear a peep out of Matt Reeves and. Well, it turns out the reason why we didn't hear a peep out of Matt Reeves was he was busy making an likely Emmy award winning show and working on his script. And now we have a shooting date for Batman 2. But I think the real thing people have been looking for is they're trying to create beef between Matt Reeves and James Gunn. They want it to be like James Gunn wants to cancel this else world's crap because he wants to do his Batman and he can't because at every turn Matt Reeves makes good product as we've, as we've seen. I mean Gunn basically crushed this and like this is like almost too stupid for me to talk about, but he's like, why would we do that? Like this sort of was his short answer. Like, they're eagerly awaiting the finished script. You know they have the shooting date. Absolutely not canceled. So I tend to think it is. Oh, here's the like, like why would you even believe a rando on social networking? Of course not. If it was canceled, it would be canceled. Who has time for the charade? I'm one of Matt's. I've been one of Matt's biggest cheerleaders for years, since Cloverfield and the Apes movies. And we're eagerly awaiting his final script. Yeah, I think this is, I think I said this is fake beef. That's what I think is going on here. Like the list of, the list of movies that have made $800 million worldwide and then were summarily canceled is very low. That's never happened. [00:57:21] Speaker A: Like word. So this is a non. Is a non conversation in regards to like listen, Penguin came out and whatever I would say cloud was over. The Batman 2 slowly moved away. [00:57:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:43] Speaker A: And now is glowing rainbows shining sun shining through Matt Reeves window to get this going to the next step. Because Batman 2 is going to be huge. It is going to be huge. [00:57:59] Speaker B: I think that's what you think about it. I mean if you're asking the question, the real question has always been about this sort of competitive collaborative dynamic. Of having to lead Batman on the big screen at the same time. That. That's really. If you're asking the question, it's more like if Matt Reeves delivers a script which propels Robert Pattinson forward as Bruce Wayne and Batman and we walk out of Batman 2 and we're like, wow, he just delivered his Dark Knight. Then I think the question you ask is, like, well, how's. How's Brave in the Bull gonna top that? Like, how can they make something different and great parallel to that? I think that's the legitimate question. It nothing to do with like, getting rid of one versus. [00:58:45] Speaker A: Nah. I mean, we can certainly say that unless things change, unless the money is ridiculous, that this is only supposed. Supposed to be a trilogy after this trilogy is whatever Batman is. You know what I'm saying? [00:59:02] Speaker B: It will be too. Because, I mean, if you don't think that they wanted Reeves to come back and do Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes sooner than it happened, of course that conversation was had and he stuck to his guns and was like, I'm done. I want to move on. He's not. He's not doing anything more pest. He'd be much more likely to do more Gotham HBO shows than he would to do a fourth Batman movie. And I don't think Pattinson wants to. Would want to do. I mean, let's say. I mean, look, there were rumors. Remember at one point, there were rumors they offered Christian Bale $50 million up front to come back and be opposite Cavill. That was the rumor before Affleck took the job. There were. There was rumors that they offered Christian Bale 50 million upfronts plus back end to be Batman again and he wouldn't do it. [00:59:47] Speaker A: Yeah, Superman teaser rumors. Brian, Give us something better. Make it better. That's what they. That's what. Apparently this is a. More rumors that WB execs execs were requesting from James Gunn or from that camp, the D.C. studios, about delivering a Superman teaser. We've already had our conversation regarding what this teaser needs to produce in terms of the chemical balances in humans. [01:00:22] Speaker B: You. [01:00:23] Speaker A: Know, whatever hormones are supposed to produce excitement. That's what it's supposed to do. That's what the Superman teaser is supposed to do. And apparently maybe the WB execs didn't get that when they saw it. For certain, Frank Grillo got that. [01:00:41] Speaker B: Well, okay, James Gunn did have time for this one, and I thought he gave a satisfactory answer. I think you can square all of the smoke here. So the first rumor, what you said was that this whole thing of, like, the studios has been sending the trailer back saying, quote, make it better. Grillo's saying he's seen the finished one. So you have to keep in mind there's some sequencing there. Grillo's saying he's seen the one that's going to go to us. [01:01:08] Speaker A: Okay. [01:01:09] Speaker B: So he's presumably seen after. In theory, all of this has occurred. Now, here's the key. James Gunn got on socials and basically said, this is true. But, quote. Well, sort of. But when he, meaning the scooper, said studio, that's me, as the only studio involved in cutting or anything to do with the trailer is DC Studios. That is me and Peter. And I'm the creatively demanding one. This is the exact same rigorous process I gone through. Cutting every Guardians trailer, pushing the marketing folks as hard as I can, cutting and recutting until I think we have something worthy of the film itself. And all that said, my notes are a lot more specific. Then make it better. So he's saying, this report is true, but it's him. It's not Zaslav. That's the key. Like, if you believe this, it's not David Zazloff saying, make it better. It's him telling the marketing department, do this with the footage. The footage is like, I gave you the footage. You're not cutting it correctly. Cut it more like this. And it's him who's actually pushing it to be better. [01:02:16] Speaker A: Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. I was having a conversation with a friend about this very thing, about what this teaser needs to be. And we're already, I guess we're close to seeing. That's all I care about. Right? That's all we care about is this actual teaser that we get with Mufasa. Is it? [01:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Which still the case. That's the room, that's the report. Which would make a lot of sense because James Gunn has also said publicly, like, you know, Superman is. Is meant to be a family friendly movie. And that's the biggest, in theory, family friendly movie this holiday. Except it's not tracking that great at the box office, which I'm kind of shocked at. It feels like Moana and Wicked have kind of stolen all the dollars. I'm excited to see Mufasa, but I doesn't seem like the audiences are responding necessarily to it. So we'll see how that. How that plays into this. [01:03:15] Speaker A: But I think the numbers will pick up as we get closer to the release date of that. [01:03:22] Speaker B: I didn't. I mean, Barry Jenkins is a great director. I mean, the idea of Barry Jenkins directing a Lion King movie is crazy to me. So I feel like if this. This has a chance to be critically loved and if that's the case, like, really, family's not gonna. Not gonna fork over some duckets to go see a Lion King movie at Christmas? Like, really? [01:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:43] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:03:43] Speaker A: But I'm gonna. I'm gonna go just to see the teaser. Can care less about them. [01:03:47] Speaker B: So I have a question for you. When was the last time you did that? [01:03:50] Speaker A: So do you remember, like, when was. [01:03:51] Speaker B: The last time you went to a movie? Just I could tell you. I got. Got on the Phantom Menace teaser like, twice when I was in college and I, like, I went to see Alien Resurrection in the theater because it was all these rumors that the Phantom Menace teaser was going to be in front of it and then it wasn't. And I had to. That movie after you sat through like, exactly, exactly. [01:04:17] Speaker A: No, I don't recall ever actually doing that now. But this will be my first. This will be my. [01:04:25] Speaker B: So here's I did this. Did. This did spark an interesting thought for me, though, which is we were talking about the ramifications of this teaser and this trailer, and you made a comment basically about, like, basically, this has to be a 10 out of 10. Like, this has. This can't be like a 7 out of 10. My fear, I don't know what your thought on this is. My fear when I first saw Make It Better before James Gunn commented, was that what they were really saying was show them more as opposed to having faith in us. That something like what Zack Snyder teased in man of Steel would be enough. Or that what, you know, it wasn't quite as good, but what Chris Nolan teased in Batman Begins would be enough. Or honestly, the Bat, the Matt Reeves Batman teaser is a better example. The fandom teaser, that's a better example. If this trailer is not received as a 10 out of 10, regardless of what James Gunn thinks of it, if this trailer is not received as a 10 of 10, what do you think the fallout will be from that inside of WB with regard to this movie? [01:05:33] Speaker A: I think nervousness will set in for a lot of those people, especially James, a little bit. Because I'm pretty sure Zaslav is really focused on what this movie will produce, his favorite character. So I'm pretty sure he's aware. And if this teaser isn't the talk of the town, I think some nervousness will be setting in. And if that nervousness sets in, then they will be forced to show us more. [01:06:15] Speaker B: Bingo. [01:06:16] Speaker A: And I think that will be cause for concerns at that point. [01:06:21] Speaker B: Bingo. That's my biggest concern when I think about it, is that if the response is middling, the next trailer will overcompensate and will basically give away the biggest action hits that they have. [01:06:37] Speaker A: I don't know who's gonna allow it though, but this. [01:06:40] Speaker B: And I can think of situ. But it will it be his call. See, up until now, everything's his call. The second the audience gets involved and says no, I think the keys could get taken from him. And I can think of the instances where in the past in our. In this genre this has happened. I always talk about Green Lantern this way because there was so much negative buzz about how Green Lantern was going. I forget what con they went to, but they show like a four minute trip. You can find it online. It's like a three, four minute trailer. It literally has every action scene in it with like dramatic music. And he's saying the oath and it was like they fired every bullet in the trailer. You watch the actual movie and it's like every lantern scene is basically in this trailer. The other one I can think of that did this was actually X Men Origins, Wolverine, because again, there were. There were rumors that people weren't liking it. It was like, you know, that one was like chopped up by the studio. But they went to Comic Con and they showed this like R rated or like, it's like, I don't think it was red band. They showed like a teaser trailer and it was really long and it has every action set piece in it in the trailer. They gave it all away. And that's my. I can't have that with this film. Like, this can't happen with this movie. [01:07:50] Speaker A: That's. That's why I don't think Gene's gonna allow it, man. He's gonna fight. He's gonna fight for his way of showing what he wants to show for this movie. He. This. This isn't a time to. Although, again, nervousness might set in if the first season doesn't hit. But I think James Gunn has to stick to his guns and not show too much and let us see the movie for how he wanted us to see it and not have to put puzzle pieces together what this movie. You know what I'm saying? People get crazy online and they show us everything, they tell us everything. And by the time we see the movie is like, you know, and God forbid, this movie is horrible, which I don't think it'll be. [01:08:42] Speaker B: So we also know that the first cut of this movie has been shown because he said it's been shown now. It wasn't a test screening. So my assumption is he showed it to the ex, he showed it to Zaslav or somebody. But, like, it's done. Like the cut. The first cut of it is done. And not every effect is done. But like he said on Social, he screened it. And there's also zero reshoots or pickups scheduled for this movie. So what I'm on the lookout for is in this case, if you see. And he said publicly he doesn't really believe in the need for reshoots. If you see Superman is undergoing extensive reshoots that we're going to get concerned on this particular one because that will mean, as a deviation from his plan, a $100 billion. [01:09:29] Speaker A: That's what's going to happen. Yeah, it's crunch time. When again, this movie's coming out July. [01:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it comes out. This movie and Fantastic four come out two weeks apart in July of 2025. As I said, all the chips are in for the genre. [01:09:45] Speaker A: Like, seriously, when this teaser hits, Brian, we gotta do a show just dedicated to the teaser. [01:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we will. I already told you. And I think we'll do it like we were going to talk about and start thinking about, like, some of the best teasers and trailers the genre has ever seen. Forget the movie, just the promotional material. Who got it done? Who got people hyped with that first look? [01:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think. Are you guys a bit nervous about what this teaser is gonna look like? Does it need to, again, blow you away? Spider Verse? Yeah, three issues. Redo, we know from the times. And basically behind the scenes in terms of how long it takes for these films to come out to get done. A lot of work is put into this. A lot. And so we have reports that Spider The Spider verse 3 is having issues landing the plane. As I said in the beginning, they're trying to figure out a way to. To end this in a way that doesn't let down from what they've seen in the first two films, which were quite amazing. Right. [01:11:13] Speaker B: So it's pretty weird. This has flown under the radar and it's kind of unfortunate. So the first kind of yellow flag, if you will, was that the final movie beyond the Spider Verse. And it is the completion of a trilogy from Lord and Miller that was supposed to come out this year and then it got taken off the schedule. And there has been no updated release date since. And then comes a report and it was affected by the strike and all the stuff that has affected other movies. But then came a report from, you know, from Jeff Snyder, not the, not just the nobody source, saying that due to creative issues between the Sony studio and Lord Miller that the movie had been done effectively and the studio junked it, scrapped the whole thing and made them start over. And because of the crazy and because of the animation being as detailed as it is, this pushed the likely conclusion of this until 2028 at the earliest. This then followed Lord Miller having issues with the studio about a spin off series they were supposed to be doing with this not, not the live action Spider man noir, a spin off I guess in the animated form using the spider noir character that they apparently were fighting with the studio over budget for that and the studio canceled the series. So there's trouble in paradise between the creators of this trilogy and Sony, which is kind of baffling considering both have made a lot of money, been nominated for Academy Awards and when you say like they're having troubles landing the plane, well that's fine except for the fact that the second one literally is a cliffhanger ending directly into the third. You would think they already knew where they were going and they're basically just doing a two part finale. But now we come to find out they may not have a movie at. [01:13:19] Speaker A: All because Sony exists. Don't think is good. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Well, that's what I'm saying. Like is it because it's not good enough or it's because they're fighting with Lord and Miller and just flexing on them a little bit right now, I don't know. And like making them redo it. [01:13:36] Speaker A: That's crazy. Yo, me being an editor and a filmmaker and you know, it's, it's tough when you're editing and you have a vision for it and you're getting told to start all over again. That's crazy. That's a infuriating especially for the people doing the work. When you think about, and listen, when you think about what you've read regarding the work that is necessary to get or to do this animation, there are a lot of people working on this. And to say that it's done to then say start all over, that's crazy. [01:14:23] Speaker B: For something this good too. Like this is unilaterally loved. [01:14:28] Speaker A: And this is the thing Sony execs, I would tell them, listen, you gave us Madame Web Morbius, you gave us these horrific movies. Who are you to tell me what's Good. [01:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm with you. [01:14:51] Speaker A: That's basically what it boils down to. The first two films. Yo, what are we talking about here? What are we talking about? The first two films? Now, the third one, we telling you is finished, and you're telling me that it's not good. I'll be like, you know, it's. I don't know. I don't know. You probably need, like, a week off to really sort of settle down and think about your future, sort of, right? Because, well, you being put in a tough position here. [01:15:23] Speaker B: But, like, you would think Lord and Miller have the leverage, right? They're kind of like, you. You need us a lot more than we need you. Like, if we. If we don't finish this, life goes on for us. People get. We're getting calls to do other projects, but if you hand it to somebody else who screws up the ending of. [01:15:40] Speaker A: This, that's on you. [01:15:41] Speaker B: We don't wear that. You do. [01:15:44] Speaker A: Are you. I mean, if you're them, are you at that point where you have that conversation? Because it seems like that conversation, it happened. Maybe. I don't know. [01:15:51] Speaker B: If I was them, I would have the conversation. Because to your point, if this is true, they are trashing a lot of effort and a lot of work and a lot of labor by a lot of people. So if you want to ride for your crew, then you should probably stand for what you made and kind of be like, look, this is a story we wanted to tell, and, yeah, we can tweak it and do this sort of stuff, but, like, you're asking us to literally redo this from scratch. [01:16:22] Speaker A: Hell, no. [01:16:23] Speaker B: Like, that's. That's disrespectful to everyone who made the original version. Like, I could see that conversation happening. [01:16:30] Speaker A: You know, I mean, again, I've been in situations where I've had to fight for a cut that I believe was appropriate, and I understand that there are other stakeholders, but if we're in a room and we're having a conversation and we agree on a vision and we deliver it, and somewhere along the line, that vision got lost. Now we want to do something different. Perhaps. I don't know what. I don't know. But it's. It's. It's. I don't know. It's infuriating. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, you know, so far, the public commentary from Lord and Miller and from the front film's composer, Daniel Pemberton, has been more. They're playing ball. They're kind of like, hey, don't believe Everything you read. But the fact remains we don't have a release date. So that's the. Like, they're saying the right thing on socials. But come on. Like, you're telling me the studio wouldn't want people to know when this is coming if they knew when it was coming? So that's conspicuous. [01:17:42] Speaker A: You run into a dumb and dumber situation with dumb. And number two, it's like, damn, you take so long to do. To do this. Do we even care at this point? [01:17:50] Speaker B: No. [01:17:51] Speaker A: I don't know. We're waiting so long for the. The ending. Do we care about what this is now? [01:17:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:57] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. And if. Because. And if because of this, when the review comes out and people aren't liking it, what then? What do we. Who do we. Is the Spider man thing, you know, pointing. Anything else? Brian? [01:18:15] Speaker B: We're gonna get our latest test of Sony in a couple weeks with. With Craven. And, you know, well, we're gonna see it and we'll talk about it. But, you know, I guess I never. I don't. You know, I don't. This is speculation. This is not confirmed. But that being said, when you see it associated with Sony Pictures, you believe it because. Or you tend to believe that it's possible because you've seen this movie before, pun intended. And I guess I never underestimate their ability to mess things up. [01:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of all we've talked about. I know we talked a lot about a lot about different things, but. Yeah. Remember to hit that like and subscribe button. Share with your friends. Comment in the comment section below, and we'll see you next time on the Nerdgen Report.