Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Nerd you Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, before we get into it, let me just discuss. Yesterday, I was trying to go live a couple of times because I was talking with Freddie and he's reacting or talking about the show that we put out recently, world's finest.
But he's talking about it as if we were responding to the news that the Batman had been delayed to 20, 27 in this whole thing with Batman. And I'm like, nah. I said, I gotta go live because I got to tell people that's not the case. We recorded that, what, on a Sunday.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: A week before that news hit.
And I believe the show came out maybe 24 to 48 hours before the show, before that it was hit.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: Yeah, but people ain't checking for when they probably think, you know, oh, snap, they gotta show the response to it now.
But this just proves, at least to me, that the conversation about Batman is always around the corner. When you're talking about Superman, dc, whatever, is always around the corner. What's Batman doing?
[00:01:16] Speaker B: The heat's always around the corner. That's right.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: That's what it brings. Batman brings heat, brings dollars, brings excitement every time out. We don't care what it is. If it's Batman, we want to take a look at it. It's never like, I saw Batman Ninja. That movie was horrible.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: From the Bruce Lee. Like, the one that's supposed to be like an homage to Bruce Lee.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: I saw that one too. It was I. But it was. I.
But it wasn't, like, crazy. There was no. It was Batman Ninja where it was Japanese.
Really, like, look it up. You probably haven't heard it because it was horrible. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't. I don't think I finished watching it, but I watched it because. Oh, snap. Is Batman.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: So here we are after the fact.
This is sort of like a part two to that discussion. Brian, your thoughts on what's going on. And you said something about this being closer to your theory. I know. I remember it being about patience. What your thoughts?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's more layer than actually people are discussing because there's multiple pieces of news. And by the way, to your point, if. If we had every.
If we had every studio executive of all time in a room and we did a draft, which character you want, a hundred out of a hundred are taking Batman first. And if you don't take Batman first, you're gonna be fired.
That's not a disrespect to Superman or the X Men or Spider man, but Batman as a character because you get the rogues, you get the storylines in the comics. He is.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Nolan did it. Yo, Chris. Nolan said, you're right, you're right. I'm saying you're right. Because think about what, think about the stuff that he does and he says you all want to do Batman. He had the choice. He did it.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: You're right, you're right. So anyway, that's a little bit of a side, but I think, yes, in, in superhero comic book ip, he is the unassailable number one piece of IP and character, like he just is. And the numbers bear that out. Okay, so lots of DC news. Let's start with Batman. Okay, so Batman 2, delayed again. So a movie that was originally slated for 2025 will now supposedly arrive in time for Halloween in 2027. The reason being the original, I think it was March 25th. Shoot date has been pushed to the fall.
Matt Reeves still fiddling, apparently with the script. 90 take. Matt is still fiddling with his script.
And, you know, he's this. He's kind of got the studio held hostage a little bit. He's got his hit show the Penguin, so he's got the, the leverage and that's where we're at. So, you know, James Gunn is being a good company guy and he's defending this, you know, on socials as best he can. He's basically saying, look, if this thing arrives five years after the first, that's actually not uncommon among a lot of franchises. If you really think about it, like, three is actually, you know, sooner than expected. And he's like, for a movie like this to be everything it should be, it's really a two year process. And so if you're starting the work in the fall of 25, then fall of 27 is when, you know, you should have it ready so that he.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Let me ask you this, Brian, real quick. Yeah, let me. Okay. In response to that, let me ask you this.
What were the. In terms of Lord of the Rings, the big trilogy joints that you knew they were coming, how far apart were they?
[00:05:02] Speaker B: So that's different though, because Lord of the Rings shot all three of the movies at the same time. So they came on consecutive years on time at Christmas, but he had all the footage done at once and they were doing post on films 1, 2 and 3. So you can't really compare movies that are shot simultaneously.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: And Harry Potter was the same way.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Harry Potter was different because up until film five they used a different director for every film. So Harry Potter 1 occurs. So Harry Potter 1 came faster than every five years. Don't forget, they also were shooting with kids. So they were imparted in a race against time for them biologically growing. So they actually were able to do eight movies in 10 years.
But within that. It wasn't until film five where they settled on David Yates and He did films 5, 6, 7 and 8 that they were cranking him because he was the same team across the board.
Nolan, to your point, as we've said, is the, in my opinion, the most efficient director working today because he's able to do such range and budget and he is to the weekend every three years. And we got confirmation. Sadly, no super helicopter this time. He's actually, he's actually going the other direction and doing the Odyssey, which by the way, I am so excited about. I think it will be the greatest mythological epic we've ever seen in a, in a genre that people don't touch. But he is every three years, third week of July, I mean you can look at it with the, with the Batman films, I believe it was one year late. It was one of the only times he didn't do that. He did a fourth year to get Dark Knight Rises done, but Batman Begins was July 2005. Dark Knight was July 2008. He is a three year guy from. From Inception, pun intended to. To completion.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: So what I'll say to this is that Batman I think deserves this sort of treatment. I'm sort of done with this one and done Batman story.
We should take into consideration how huge of an IP Batman is and use some of this. Thinking of being able to create a Batman trilogy story and have one come out one every two years, whatever.
I think that's what Batman deserves as an IP and a popular character. It's just he's more complex than just one movie. He's. You're trying to fit in so many aspects to Batman in one film that you lack in almost every one of them. Something, something that we think it should be a given that he is a masterful fighter. Right? He should be a given. Batman and Chris Nolan, we really need to get a chance to really see that per se because I'm quite certain when they looked at the tape, oh, this looks horrible. Let's just try to do close ups and dark whatever.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Like Nolan's movies are all time movies. But his Batman itself has flaws or things that you can pick at. So I would say some of the choices he made for Bale in terms of the aspects of Bruce's personality that he put on screen, I think left a few things to be desired. I think he shortchanged Bruce's intelligence as a detective. Only really in the beginning of the Dark Knight where he's kind of doing that bullet forensics. Do you actually.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Batman doing something.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Incredible as a detective. Right. So I feel like Nolan kind of left that on the table. And then I think Batman as martial artist, he kind of also shorted a little bit. Now maybe that's. I don't know, you never know, like, what's possible. But he tried to compensate that for, to your point, by sort of quick cutting the close ups to make it feel more kinetic and more ferocious. But it wasn't like as artistic as I think Batman's martial arts sometimes look on the pages. Right. So if we're being fair that those are fair, I think those are fair critiques that maybe you could improve upon. I do think there's frustration in House at Warner Brothers. I don't think there's any question about that. And I think you can see it in Gun's description of the script. I really do. I think it's. I rarely think of James Gunn as posting things on Social by accident. He knows what he's writing, when he's writing it, and I'm sure he's looked at it a ton of times before he hit send. So if you look at the prior comments about the script, it was all, you know, hey, everyone, no problem. We're so excited. Matt's saying he's close. He's almost done. We can't wait to see what he's got. We can't wait to see what he's got. We've almost got it. That was the message all the way through. The most recent one that talked about this delay to 2027, he threw in a thing about like, and who knows, or who's to say when a script is ready? Like, he kind of just like pivoted the tone ever so slightly to made me think like, yeah, they're a little. They're a little like, dude, really, you need another three months. Like, you said you were like 98% done three months ago. Like, come on. Like. And I think Gun saying that a little bit because we know Gun as writer, he's prolific.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Like, he. Maybe he's not quite Taylor Sheridan, but he writes fast.
So I think there's an aspect of he's looking at this being like really? You sure you don't want me to doctor that thing for you and get it done? Like, I could feel it. I could feel it all the way down in my plums, you know? Exactly. So there's a little bit of that. I do feel like there's a little bit of that. Now, let me throw this at you. And see, the thing I said last time was this idea of Brave and the Bold alongside the Batman 2, and you were kind of saying you kind of want someone different. You don't think Pattinson is the right fit. And I would agree, for that project as it's written, he's not. But I was kind of saying the studio might be wanting to play the long game and not commit to another DCU Batman, just in case the Batman 2 takes the momentum of the Penguin and all of the accolades that are going to come the Penguins way, and all of a sudden you're talking about, like, wait, what if that movie's nominated for an Oscar? What if the box office doubles? What if Pattinson delivers this, like, transcendent performance?
And I thought it was interesting that Andy Muschietti, who technically is still the director, although I don't think either of us think he ultimately will be, popped up on a podcast to say that Brave and the Bold had also been postponed, and he sort of intimated there's nothing happening with the project for the time being. And I just kind of was, like, saying to you, I was like, well, technically, those are not linked, right? One is mainstream DCU and one is Elseworlds. But why would they both be delayed at exactly the same time? Unless the studio was hedging and keeping the door open for Robert Pattinson someday to maybe be the DCU Batman. So I put that out there as a couple of facts that occurred within 24 hours to suggest this is not, like, an isolated thing that's going on with the Batman 2.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: I mean, I think he'll probably do it for the bag and the potential of him doing his own stuff.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Right, Pattinson, you mean?
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yes, yes. You may make a sweet enough deal, enough money, and you pitch that future for. For him to be able to do things that he wants to do. Right. So that's an incentive.
But let's see, let's see, let's see. How old is, though?
[00:12:32] Speaker B: I mean, like, how much money do you think he made off Twilight? Because he's already had, like, a big IP franchise, and now he's doing multiple Chris Nolan movies. Like, he's doing the Bong John Bong Joon. Ho. He's the lead of Mickey 17. Like, he doesn't need. I don't. Does he need a bag? Like, I. I don't.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Just this trilogy alone, probably. I would just think he's.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: But what would. Yeah, but what would make him do this film if it's not for that? If. If it's for the love of the character? I don't know.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: No, I agree with you. I think money. Look, but I'm just saying, like, as we. As I said in a prior show, they offer Christian Bale 50 million up front to be in dawn of justice, and he said no.
So I'm not convinced Robert Pattinson won't do the same thing is sort of my point. But I'm saying the studio. The studio does not. That's my point. The studio's nightmare to me is even if it's like an Alan Richardson, who would get a lot of fan approval, whoever they announced. If they announced that guy. And the Batman 2 comes out in 2027, and it does a billion five, and they're talking about Robert Pattinson as. Should he be nominated for an Oscar? You're screwed. Because you. You are like, as a studio. Because you're like, wait, we went away from that to do who? Like, it just. You can't have that happen on your watch. Like, I think it's. I think it's just one of those, like, you look, there's a lot of egg on the face if you do that. I think so. I think they're trying to hold out, but Matt Reeves is making it hard for them because he's just doing it when.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: An Oscar. For what, though, Brian? We're not asking for just. Just winning an Oscar. Just happening.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Just being nominated, right? I'm saying, like, Keith Ledger. Right. Heath Ledger delivers his brunette.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: But for Batman, I'm just in general. Oh.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: I'm saying Heath Ledger was the Joker. Immediately, people are like, best supporting Actor done. Even though. Even had he been alive, I think people were like, yeah, yeah.
I'm just saying I think it's a remote chance. I'm not saying Pattinson will get nominated. I'm certainly not saying he's gonna win. I'm just saying. That's your studio nightmare, though, right? Is that you show up in the Halloween 2027. The Batman is the phenomenon of the fall. Start putting up enormous box, and people are talking about Robert Pattinson as the Heath Ledger of the franchise. Meaning, like, he's the guy delivering the performance and there's awards buzz around it. But you've now signed and committed another actor to be Batman in your central storyline. That is not a good thing to have happen. Even though you want that for Pattinson, you don't want it for the mainline dcu. So I think they are trying to hold out and leave the door open for all possibilities. But Reeves is making it hard for them because he's taking his sweet time getting this movie ready.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: I would say this, man, I'm thinking, how long is this dude really gonna be Batman for in the DCU? I wouldn't. I wouldn't bet on 10 years or the longevity. You know what I'm saying? It's like, is he a one and done after braving a bold. Because then you got Justice League use not signing him to do one movie. He's getting the Tom Holland treatment.
Thousand movies.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: He needs his own franchise. Right. Tom Holland works in part because he pops up in Civil War. He pops up in the Avengers movies, but he has his own storyline with homecoming.
Cannot just be.
He can't just be the second banana in Brave and Bold and, like, the cool outsider in the Justice League. There has to be a Batman film, Mark.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: But we're talking. But here we're talking the future of the. Of. Of the possibility of Paton being a Batman and talking about it as if he's gonna sign up to do all these appearances just to be you. It's. This, I would say, is the same feeling.
And not to say that this is gonna fall into that category, but I'm pretty sure Kristen Bale saw the writing on the wall. Like, nah, I don't want to be no part of this. You know what I'm saying? He's. Christian Bale, I would assume, is very particular about the scripts that he chooses to be a part of.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Well, I think he only did it because Nolan was doing it. Like, that was. That was a.
You know, that was. That was.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Understood the quality, right? Like, you understood the quality. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: If I. If I play Coach Days like that. It was absolutely that kind of relationship. But I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. Right. Like, I. Yeah. I'm not even saying Robert Pattinson is going to be amazing as Bruce Wayne by the end of this trilogy. I'm just trying to put myself in Gun, Saffron and Zaslav shoes and saying, what are all the possibilities here?
[00:17:22] Speaker A: Where do you think the pressure is coming from?
[00:17:25] Speaker B: To do what?
[00:17:26] Speaker A: To wait to get patents? Because this is all.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Because, okay, 100%. Remember Gunn's public comments have been. I already considered Pattinson for the DCU and said no. So I think we know where he stands artistically on this. He would rather. He would rather Matt Reeves crush it in Elseworlds and then still do his own thing.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: And I'm saying, I think between Saffron and Zaslav in particular, they're saying commercially, that's not how this works.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: It's business.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: That's all I'm saying. And the fact that Brave and the Bold has been pushed to the back the way it had, the way that Musky is telling you, that's not rumor. He's telling you. He literally went so far as to say he's lining up other films to direct and not doing anything with Brave and the Bold for now. That tells you how back burner this project is.
So I'm just saying that doesn't happen in a vacuum to me when we just had a discussion that Batman is the unquestioned number one pick for comic book ip. You don't bench that guy for no reason.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Bull case, though. Bull case. Our dream is now alive officially, which is Penguin season two leading to Batman 2. You want to upside to this?
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's alive now is definitely because you're not waiting to do a season two after Batman. You're gonna do it before, and it's gonna lead into. There you go.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: And maybe, maybe Matt Reeves dangled that because he did also issue a comment saying he's been having active conversations with Lauren LeFranc about gearing up season two of the Penguin. That was in a separate interview. So maybe dangle to the studio. Yeah, I know you had not happy, but I'll get you season two of the Penguin in August and then guaranteeing.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: You $1 billion in the theaters. I mean, who does that point to?
[00:19:32] Speaker B: The numbers now on MAX, where you can say, like, look at what happened to the viewership of my last movie when the season one came out. We didn't anticipate that. So why don't we marry the $2 billion? I think it's more if. If that's. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Penguin. And it's as good, if not better than season one. And it closes direct lead in to the next movie. I think that opening weekend could be like, that's a $200 million plus opening weekend.
Us.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Yes.
Let me ask you this before we move on, because this can go on for hours.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Yes. Batman for you, right? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Do we see more of Batman? Not Batman, but his presence, perhaps Bruce Wayne, but more hints of the Wayne. More hints of Batman in this world and Bruce Wayne working in the daytime. Do we see hints of that?
[00:20:30] Speaker B: So this was my question, right. For the Superman thing was like, would you see direct references to Bruce Wayne, to Wayne Enterprises, like, you know, Gotham? Like, would you see that?
And if you didn't, is there even any shot that if Gunn is doing this, pickup shots, little reshoots, would he add it? Would he be. Would he be told, kind of like, add. Add a little something. Give the people a little something. Right where I was like, what was it?
Man of Steel had the satellite. I think if they did season two of the Penguin, there definitely would be more Batman. I don't think he.
Maybe he would show up in that. Actually. If it's directly leading into the movie, maybe he would pop up in the finale as his opportunity. Yeah, maybe even as like a figure, you know, a silhouette during the day.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Brian, business is happening. His presence. If he's running an empire, I would assume that he has to take up that Persona. This has to be a start of his transformation because he can't be the same Bruce Wayne in the first film. I'm sorry.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: No, no, we agree on that. And I think you can use Alfred, too. You could have Andy Serkis pop up in some scenes, given the way this series uses Alfred. So I think, yes, I'm going to say yes on that. I'm going to say season two of the Penguin. If it's leading directly into Batman 2.
Pattinson appears in the show in some capacity. And there are more overt references to the character throughout the season, but I think that's. Yeah.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Nerd J Report. You heard it here first. We've given you what could possibly be.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: We're talking about how to make money is what we're doing.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Yo.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Put it. Where's it addressed for royalty?
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Word up, man. Word up. Anyway, Superman.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Trying to avoid politics. I had a conversation before the trailer came out. I think it was Monday before the trailer came out. I was having a conversation with Freddie. I don't know if Tracy was on the phone, but Trait. But Freddie asked about it breaking records the viewership. And I said it has the potential. Why? Because Superman is. No, I mean, he hasn't been for a while. I think after Quest for Peace, he was no longer just an American, a figure. He was, you know, despite how horrible that movie is, he is more of. He is a protective of Earth. So he holds in regards all the values of everyone on Earth. And this is not an American Obviously, it was created. America.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Superheroes created. It was an American superhero. Right. If you go back to the first movie, I'm here for Strange Truth, justice in the American way. I told him he has the potential of breaking those records because this is just not a release for America. This is for release for everybody. So everybody is. And you see it in the trailer.
This is for everyone. So it definitely had the potential, and it did. Your thoughts on this choice of.
Of being not one and not being in one camp?
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's. I think it's the commercially sound choice, and I think it's the only creative choice. I think, again, layers. David Zaslav's favorite character is Superman. We know that. I think we. You can kind of get at where David Zaslav's personal politics might be. But I also think that from a business standpoint, I really do think they're looking at things like Top Gun Maverick as the business model. And if you look at Top Gun Maverick, that went out of its way to avoid sort of identification. Right. Like you don't know who they're bombing. You sort of configure it out. But they very specifically do not say the name of the country. They do not say the issues that led to the mission being necessary. They leave all of that out. Right. And, like, it is about the pilots, and it's about the training and it's about the execution.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: It's obviously the United States military. They're obviously at war. But you don't feel the political aspect of that at any point in that film. The closest they got to politics was the whole controversy about the patches on his bomber jacket. But I think for Superman, for box office success, they have to do that. And I think they're looking at some of the heat that Disney has taken for clearly taking a side.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: And seeing their audience shrink as a result. And they're saying, no, we can't have that. Like, we just can't have that because we need this thing to work. Now, the creative part of this, where I do think James Gunn is onto something that you're referring to is Superman as a character is sort of above politics. Right. That's kind of the part of the idea of that character, if you believe in it. And so he says, talking about the trailer, he said, you know, the version of Superman you see at the beginning of the trailer is a metaphor for the US we have a battered Superman in the beginning because that is our country. He said, but he says that it's a nation and it's Interesting he's talking about this in an American context now. He granted, he was giving this interview in the US but he says it's a nation that, while hurt and worn, still represents goodness and hope. And that theme is central to the film because of the belief in the inherent goodness of people, no matter where they stand politically. Right. So he's. That's kind of what Superman's essence is in theory. Right.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: What article is that?
[00:26:14] Speaker B: He did it. It wasn't an article was. He did it in a Q and A with a New York Post.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Where he talked about that.
So he said that despite ideological divides, most people are still trying their best. And when. Even. Even when that goodness comes under siege from darker voices. And it's a noble ideal which he. Which he believes will help the film resonate with a ding, ding, ding, wider audience. So. And then said the spill of the film will not delve into specific political issues, undertones or figureheads.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Escapism.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: It's what people want when they go to the movies. I mean, to be honest, now you can. It's not to say you have no politics. Right. Because, like, Barbie obviously has messaging and was a massive phenomenon. Right. So it's not. This is not a universal concept. But I would say for what they're trying for, which is an action comic book franchise launching into a broader universe, it is the much safer choice to not try to be controversial politically in your themes.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, there it is. I mean, this is going to be a huge opening. Tracy is. Is. I think almost.
He hasn't said it, like, in these words, but I think he. I would be speaking for him and saying that he believes this is going to be a $1 billion film.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: I'm not there yet, but. Okay.
I'm not.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: I'm trying to get him on the show one day to see. To have that sort of debate.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: I'm just not. I mean, I think.
I think it's. I think it's hard. Right. You're still launching something new. Kudos to Gun, by the way. Apparently the film is like 2 hours and 10 minutes. Well done.
That's key.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Like, I actually think Matt Reeves might have gotten closer to a billion if that movie was 220 instead of 250 as good as it was. So 210 is helpful. But, you know, the biggest thing for me that's going to make a billion challenging is the calendar. I mean, Fantastic 4 is two weeks later. Jurassic World. Jurassic World is out the same time.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Like, that's a lot of competition.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Like Deadpool, Wolverine didn't have any competition.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but it'll be word of mouth, Brian. It'll. The word of mouth word will, Will move the herd to where, you know, their attention should at least see once or even twice if they like it even more. And that's what it's gonna take.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: For it to get to those numbers.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: I totally agree with you. And like, yes, you only get to a billion of people go see it multiple times.
But like there is, there is sort of short term fatigue. Like, I mean, I would even point to something like Mufasa, right. Where yeah, you would think the Lion King would be as safe an IP as there is.
And then you watched the combination of sort of moana Wicked and Sonic 3 render Mufasa sort of like an afterthought. And like, it's interesting because now people are actually going to see the movie, like later in the Christmas holiday, you're starting to see the box office from Mufasa pick up. People are maybe coming back to it, but it's like they had three or four other movies they could see in the same demographics or for families around the holidays and they're kind of like, I don't have budget or I don't have time for all of them. Right. And so 2025 is really going to be one of those years where like so much stuff is out. Like we'll see everything because we love movies and this is part of what we do. But like, not everyone's going to do that and not everyone can do that. So they're going to have to make choices with their dollars about where to spend versus where to watch stream it at home, you know, so the path to a billion for this, I think is very hard.
And I, I would like. I said, I think if this does 700 plus 750, I would consider that an enormous win with good, with good reviews and sort of a decent audience reception. I think that would be a huge, huge win for them out of the gate. I'm not saying billions impossible. I just think it's. Nah, I think it's a high degree of difficulty.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: I'm giving it a slight, slightly above average chance of getting to a billion.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Okay, you're higher than that because I'm saying like, in retrospect, Batman Begins is a billion dollar movie that made 450 million.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: But if you watch it now, you're like, you probably would be like, oh, this made a billion. Right.
Great Batman movie. You know, that's what I'm saying. If you showed it to someone who didn't know.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Was this a billion dollar movie or not? Think like 80% plus people would be like, absolutely, that's a billion dollar movie. And you'd be like, it didn't make half that.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
By the way, I know we were talking about Batman earlier. I just want to make mention because I don't want to seem as if I didn't enjoy Chris Nolan. I didn't really particularly enjoy the third one too much. I think they phoned it in.
But the first one to me is like the best. To me is like the best Batman film in terms of him saying it's. You don't tell that origin anymore because of that, that, that movie right there.
The lines that he was given were Batman lines, things that he would say in the comments. And I enjoyed it very much and I think it certainly is one of my highest, one of my favorites.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Do you like Begins better than Dark Knight now?
I think they're different movies, right? I think, yeah, they're different movies.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: I like it for different reasons.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Begins as a Batman movie. Dark Knight is a joke.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I hold Batman in such high regard.
Even in the comics and in the Animated Series, Batman always does some cool stuff and taking him down is always Batman coming out on top, you know, not second fiddle. And that's what. And if I come away with that feeling and in a Batman movie and it's not, I don't hold it in such high regard as some people would. So Roka and Snyder were talking about.
I don't know, Brian, if you have you watched their channel.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: I've seen it before. I didn't see this particular episode. I got the quotes on this episode. But yeah, I've seen it before. I'm aware. Yeah.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: So there's been some back and forth on this. On some of the test screens for Superman, some are saying it was fantastic, some are saying that it wasn't that great. Some of our saying is in the middle that you'll enjoy.
You have a theory regarding this, Brian? I'm on in the camp. Like I don't care what one person is telling me because 10 people telling me out of the thousands that are going to be seen all the milk, sorry, the millions that are going to be seeing this is just like one person to me at this stage.
So I'm waiting before. I mean, I have my concerns, but so far James Gunn has eased it with what he. What he has shown us and what he's doing. He's doing a brilliant job. But I'm not going to concern myself too much with. With some of the test screening stuff. I don't care at this stage. I don't care. But go ahead.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: So to your point, the in the negative comments which came from the Jeff Snyder side said, you know, he had a really good source. First off, this was screened. James Gunn confirmed it was shown because he made a comment on social saying he had just gotten back from showing it.
It sounded like it was a very in house screening. Like it was like, yes, cast and crew and a little bit of studio. Like it was not critics, it was not like audience. The way we kind of got screenings elsewhere, they haven't done that yet. My guess is they will.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: You said that they were gonna test. Do the test screening on that Monday, correct?
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was like on the studio lot. They brought a few people in. It was very, supposedly was very hush hush. And I made a comment on a previous show. I was like, I was shocked. There was no leak, there was no reaction.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So now, now. Yes, yes.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: And the one on the negative that Snyder got, it was his source said, quote, the film's kind of a mess and that Warner Brothers is starting to get concerned.
That was sort of the neck. And that James Gunn is aware of the feedback, but was interesting was his scooper then said at the end of that only a third of the VFX was done and it was still a decent fun film.
So like he kind of was talking out of both sides of his mouth a little bit.
There was someone in the middle who said, you know, it's enjoyable. It'll be more than enough for GUN to continue the DC universe. That was the middle commentary. And then there was the. At the positive side, there was another scooper saying it's, you know, it's every. It's like a Guardians of the Galaxy level good. And the VFX shots that were done look amazing.
And you know, it has less humor than your typical GUN film, but still has humor.
So you kind of have the range on this. It's still pretty early. You know, there's also been this debate about, like, if you go through the history of screening buzz, right? It is mixed. And this is what I started thinking about because I was like, let's think about it from DC in house.
How much would you trust DC Buzz being awesome at this point after the Black Adam Flash? Like, why would you.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: I don't want to hear it. That's why I don't.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: So my point is they saw much more finished Products of Black Adam and Flash. And they tried to pull the wool over our eyes and tell us they were awesome when they were not. Now, we did hear, and I want to get this to my theory. We did hear that Aquaman 2 was a disaster early in the process. And it was.
But to me, and we've been hearing, obviously, we've been killing Cap 4. I want to make a comment about that.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, watch.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: To me, I think it's more of a tell to watch the actions of the studio in response to a screening than the buzz of a screening itself. And here's what I mean by that.
Aquaman to Cap for. What do they have in common other than other at this point? Because we haven't seen Cat 4. They both reshot the entire movie, right? So they screened it.
We heard the leaks. But whatever feedback they got, they turned around and redid a large amount of the film. And in caps case, they've done that twice. So I would say it is more damning when you see that action, because that's telling you the studio doesn't believe in whatever was shown the first time. In situations where they don't do that. I'm not saying it guarantees success, but what I am saying is it means there is alignment in the house about what the project is like. Like, so Superman has a couple days of pickups. There's no actual, like, redos of the story.
Films in the past that got bad buzz but didn't like. So Barbie was one that was held up with the early buzz was terrible, but they didn't really reshoot it. And obviously the rest is history. Right? Critics loved it, made a ton of money.
So I'm just saying, like. And honestly, in the Marvel house, we've heard thunderbolts, right? We got some good buzz there.
And maybe that's one they're. They haven't really had to redo it. So maybe that one's better than we think. I'm just saying that's something I'm more watching. Superman gets reshot, like, early next year, I'll be much more concerned.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I don't think we're gonna be there.
Here's another reason why Brian. None of this concerns me.
Like, I do video stuff. I do, you know, I film stuff, I edit. And oftentimes, the vision that you have for it is not really there in the first few drafts or wherever it is, you. You just want to show people, to keep people at ease.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: Yeah. This movie has been edited yet, so.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: It'S like, whether you like the execs you don't see the vision. All I know is what you're counting on is, Dallas, you don't see the vision yet. So your or their.
Their concerns.
I hear them.
I'll keep a note of them.
But this ain't the finished product.
Don't start going crazy on me.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. Some of the things they bring to the full audience screenings are actually much more finished. Like, the effects might not be, but the cutting is generally done.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: And there's still been films to your point where there'll be one meaningful change made late in the process, and it radically overhauls the movie. Like, there's legendary stories of. Of that where it's like they would bring it to, like, a certain writer director, and he'll be like, love the movie. Take this scene out. And they take the one scene out, and you never see it. And, like, the movie's amazing because they take that one scene out. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not as concerned about, like I said, because I haven't seen the. The actions of Gunn in the studio suggest to me that I should panic. Yeah, yeah, I might. We might see that, but we haven't seen it yet. And the response to the trailer has been pretty good. Most of the surveys I've seen, people have liked more than they haven't what they've seen. I will say this. Here's my conspiracy theory. See, if you. What you think about this, and I haven't shared this with you, I think there are more people out there who want this project to fail than almost any other superhero project we've had in the last 10 years.
Therefore, I think there will be more attempted leaks to sabotage this film than any recent Marvel film and certainly any Sony film. Do you agree?
So, number one, Marvel doesn't want this thing to explode and become the new phenomena. They don't. As you always say, it is a competition.
So I think the more I think the Marvel honks will be after this film and wanting to tear it down is like, James Gunn betrayed us and he's running the other house. And we don't want. We don't want this universe to ascend toward where the Marvel universe was.
Number two, the Snyder crowd. Absolutely.
[00:40:24] Speaker A: That's a given.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Absolutely want this to fail.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: So they want any excuse to put this project down.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: And I'm just saying most Marvel film, I don't think that exists. Like, because DC doesn't have a universe yet. I actually don't think that same thing applies the other way. Like, I don't think the DC honks are out to kill Cap 4. Like, Marvel already has its universe and exists and is up and running. DC doesn't have anything yet. So I don't think there's the same, like, God, we need Cap 4 to fail for us to succeed.
And there obviously is no snyderverse equivalent on the Marvel side that's trying to tear down, you know, Marvel projects. I don't think so. It just feels different. It just feels like the, the eyes on this and the motivations and the agendas for whether this succeeds or fails feel different to me than with any other project.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: So, yes, like, if you think about it, if you're over there at Marvel and you listen to some of the comments that James Gunn has said about the processes that they have in place for filmmaking, they are not flattering.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you're absolutely right. I didn't mention he's poking the bear. He's poking the bear regularly.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, even if I was Kevin, I'd be like, yo, chill.
You know what I'm saying? Like, damn.
So, yeah, of course. I mean, that's why, you know, reading reviews and stuff like that, I read them, but, you know, until I see the movie and I hear from people that I trust in terms of their taste in films, tell me, you know, I decide, well, whether I want to waste my time or not really, you know, because like, Craven. I was looking forward to kind of seeing it, Brian, but then I heard the atrocities that they committed in this film and I was like, nah, you know, I'm not gonna waste two hours of my time just to trash it or whatever the case may be.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Well, that's where buzz matters, right? I mean, buzz does matter. That's why I'm bringing this up because people now know and certainly have seen, like, if you can generate enough pre release momentum, you can affect the outcome a little bit. Not, maybe not sustainably, but you can. That's why I think, like, I'm watching something I'm watching for next year is how soon do they get the reviews out? Like, this is a film to me that if it is critically acclaimed, you should be putting those reviews out three weeks before the release in a crowded marketplace. You should not wait till the day.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: Before if that will be the last. Like if we're in that time frame and these things, like, if we, to. If we know, if we. Two weeks, a week and a half or a week close to the movie releasing and nothing.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: I'm with you because I would also argue there's nothing that this movie should be spoiling in its third act that's so big that you have to keep the reviews under wraps. You're trying to launch the universe. So if the reviews are like, if you got. If you think you got 80% approval rating or better among the critics, you gotta have that out there three weeks to a month before the movie comes out. That's my opinion.
[00:43:54] Speaker A: Yeah. That is on the conversations below, what you guys think of the test screens and the things that you've been reading about on how people reacted to seeing this first cut of the Superman film. Right now, there's too many unreliable variables to really think about whether this movie is going to be good or not. I'm taking whatever James Gunn wants me to see. And he showed that's who I'm. Because this is on him. Yeah, this is on him.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: Two to two tidbits before we leave Superman, both of which I thought were good. Number one, James Gunn confirmed all of the footage you saw in the trailer is from the first act of the movie.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: Number one, that's good. Good marketing.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: Second, we got a Lois Lane update. I've been dying for Lois Lane updates just because I think Brosnan is going to kill it. She dropped. Which I thought was also a plus for the film, albeit a small one. She said that one area, the thematically the film will tackle is the idea of print journalism versus digital news. And sort of Lois and Clark being kind of a throwback to, you know, ferreting out stories and investigating news the old fashioned way versus kind of where the world has taken it. I just thought it was a little thing where I was like, I think that's smart. I don't know. That's not going to lead the movie. But I was like, I think that makes it a little relevant to the non superheroed part of the film.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: So far so good, Brian. That's all I can say. So far so good.
Some Marvel casting rumors and Channing Tatum. This thing is just not gonna go away. We're gonna have to deal with whatever it is that they're gonna be putting out with this character. He gets to live out perhaps his dream, right? And it's just like.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: But anyway, I didn't know that. I guess I missed the memo where Avengers movies were the place where every actor gets to live out their dream. Is that. Is that. I didn't know that's why we made those.
Kind of feels like that's what Secret wars is though, right?
[00:46:10] Speaker A: All I can say is how the tables have turned. That's all.
That's all.
So casting rumors, Brian, who do we got?
[00:46:21] Speaker B: Oh, man. So there's several. What? Let's, you know, let's start with the Tatum discussion because. So the rumor is he's in Avengers 5 and 6, not just secret wars, albeit it would not be a big part. Here's my question. Do you read that as Ryan Reynolds fingerprints?
[00:46:39] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: Okay, that. See, to me, when I see that headline, that's all I see.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: That's Ryan Reynolds imposing his will. I made a billion dollars. What did you do? I have to. I can speak. I can talk to your Iger.
You know what I'm saying? I made a billion dollars. That's significant.
So. Yeah, and I won't be surprised if we get that Wesley Snipes movie either.
[00:47:08] Speaker B: I was actually surprised that headline hadn't appeared yet because when I first. The other thing I saw. When I saw was like, wait, why? Why is he first in line for Secret wars cameo? I mean, Snipes is the one that people would actually get more excited to see again, I think.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: So I thought to see his own film.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: Yeah. But the only thing I could think of though was that we know there are X Men tie ins to Secret Wars. Right. Kelsey grammar appearing. I think we've heard Charles Xavier's confirmed to be in Secret. So then I was like, well, maybe it's because Tatum, you know, is obviously playing an X Man and Snipes not so maybe that's. Yeah, maybe that's what they're doing. So in the category of X Men. So that's my segue. We did get a casting rumor that one of the stars of Stranger Things, yes, Sadie Sink, might be up to play the new Jean Grey. She's pretty young, so this would. Yeah, I don't know if this is true or not, but that was my number one take and I wanted. Your reaction was like, that is a very young actress. They're getting how implied to me these are going to be kids.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: Like, how old is she right now?
[00:48:13] Speaker B: She looks like she's a teenager. Yeah, because she's playing obviously in a show that is focused on characters that started as teenagers in. In Stranger Things. I want to pull the age right now. She's 22.
Pull up a picture. She looks like she's 15.
[00:48:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she'll be 20, probably 3, 24 when they get started. I don't know.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: Well, the rumor is she's in the list of cameos for Secret wars, so that it was also evidence of like, you might see Some of these castings become real because they actually might pop up somewhere in the Secret wars film as a segue. So I'm not shocked that they're going young. Given what we've seen live action.
I feel like we've been getting younger. Right. If you think about the Singer iteration, they're adults, the Matthew Vaughn iteration, they're portrayed as school age, college. But the actors are all kind of in their 30s. Right. So I'm not shocked that we're actually going young.
What does that do for your excitement though? If we have a lineup of it's legitimately a school, like these are the generation one, these actors look like they're aged somewhere between like 17 and 25, minus Wolverine.
What do you think about that as a launch point for mutants?
[00:49:37] Speaker A: I think it's one Disney, being Disney, trying to get that young audience obsessed with it.
[00:49:44] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: Because it's the opportunity to start. Start like from the ground up. You don't have to go all the way up to Avengers and now do these young Avengers. You can start with these teenage students. You can start young. And I get it for the fact that they're in Avengers or in Secret wars, possibly in Secret wars, we'll get our first glimpse and we'll wait and see.
But how it makes me feel right now, I'm not excited.
I'm not excited about it because, oh, all I know is that we get in the Mutant saga, we're going to see the X Men. What it looks like. We have no idea what they're trying to do. We have some inclination about it, but I have yet to see what this gonna is gonna look like, what story they're gonna tell. I can't. My excitement, whether it's concerning news or great news, I can't go because there's so much that's involved with the X Men. That one thing is not gonna bring all of that up towards an excitement level of I can't wait. You know, I'm saying I'm just not there.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: It makes me wonder if, like, it does make me feel. I think you hit on with the Disney point. Like, I don't think we are the primary target audience anymore. And I was trying. I was like, I think for younger generation, casting people who are the stars of Things like Stranger Things is buzzy. I think it could be buzzier to them because those people are more relevant parts of their lives.
And then I was thinking about myself where I was like, oh, you know, when Bryan Singer's X Men came out and then when Sam Raimi's Spider man came out. Like I was in the sweet spot demographic. Right. I was 19, 20, 21 at that time. And so by the time even like Tom Holland came around, and I love Tom Holland's work as Spider man, but I don't connect as much to Spider Man Homecoming as some of the other Marvel films. And I wonder if part of that's because I'm too far removed from high school. Like, I don't. I don't see it in that light in the same way. So, like, I enjoy the adultness of a Winter Soldier more than a coming of age tale. I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not for everyone. I'm just. And so, like, you know, I'll be mean by the time this hits the screen. Like, I'll be pushing 50.
Like, I may not be the person they care about if they're showing a 20 something teenage, you know, X Men universe. Right. And so, I don't know, it just crossed my mind of like, maybe I should be more excited for this. And it actually makes more sense. And I'm just putting my own old man lens on it to sort of say, like, I'm not as hyped. You know what I mean?
[00:52:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, for me, it's always about the. Is a lot of things performance. The performance has to be there. Right.
You know, my brother who loves the Karate Kid, the Cobra Kai loves, even.
[00:52:41] Speaker B: To the end, man, season six is getting a little bit. I'm. I'm still with the show, but it's a little.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: I haven't. I tried to watch it and I just. Every time I see Ralph Manchu, I'm done.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: You know, I'm with you on that. He's the truth. And the thing is, you saw they're doing the remake with like, both him.
[00:52:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:57] Speaker B: Yo.
[00:52:58] Speaker A: I think they're gonna make Ralph Macho look good in this, even though I still think he can't be.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: Not athletic enough. Yeah, but he's not that good of an actor for a guy who's been an actor since he was a kid. Not that good of an actor, but.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: That'S what I mean. There has to be some face off between Jackie Chan and. And Ross Mosh character just to test him. They're gonna make him look good, but if they don't, Brian.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: I mean, this is a tangent, but like, William Zabka is a much more compelling character as Johnny Lawrence both in the.
[00:53:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: And in the movie. Yes, he is.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: Like Rewatch original Karate Kid, Johnny Lawrence is a. That's the more interesting character.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:46] Speaker B: And I think I said, I'm. I'm obviously a big Joel of Myra Duana guy. I think he's overqualified for his part in Cobra Kai. I think among the younger actors, he's by far the best performer.
So, yeah, I had a tough time staying with the show because I feel like they're, you know, because now they're riffing on, like, Karate Kid 3. And, like, I still. I'm like, you know, are they going to make it to the end of this with no Hillary Swank appearance? Because they've gone everywhere else. You know, they've got everywhere else with this where I'm just.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: I know, right? Yeah, that'll be interesting.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: Anya Taylor Joy as Black Cat in Spider Man 4 is also rumor. So she would take over as the female lead with Zendaya more as the kind of small, sporting female lead. I like this one, personally. I think she looks. Yeah. Feels like she could really do an athletic, compelling black cat opposite Tom Holland. That. That felt really real to me. I know. Obviously, she was rumored to be Silver Surfer and didn't. Didn't. Didn't do that. But this part, when I saw it, I was like, oh, yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
[00:54:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. She's always been, like, really good in. In her role. So that as a distraction to. Perhaps the Zendaya and Tom Holland situation in the movie is a suitable sort of replacement in terms of whatever connection you're trying to have us get.
[00:55:11] Speaker B: I think Zendaya, though, is going to get, like, awfully tired of, like, she's like, wait a minute, I'm the love interest in Dune. And then I got to watch my guy go off of Florence Pugh in that movie. Now Spider Man's my guy, and I got to watch him go off with Anya Taylor Joy. She's like, I'm out. I'm not with that. Just like, I'm. I'm Zen diet, you know? Yeah.
I run out here.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Y'all just live here.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: Oh, I did hear a Secret wars thing of, like. Secret wars is going to then trigger and lead to some sort of cinematic portrayal of the annihilation storyline where Annihilus takes over as the main villain after Doom. I. I don't know. That felt weak to me, but, like, it better just lead to a reset and X verse and we bench a lot of the Avengers other than, you know, the way they did it in X Men 97.
Oh, hey, sorry. Before we Leave Marvel. This is not. This is totally aside. Brad Wittenbaum. Interesting thing they asked him about. Would they. Because we didn't talk about what if and.
[00:56:17] Speaker A: Oh, yes, yes, yes.
[00:56:19] Speaker B: Which is back for its final season.
[00:56:21] Speaker A: Did you see everything?
[00:56:23] Speaker B: I'm halfway through. So I'm two thirds of the way through Creature Commandos and halfway through what if I have my one moment in what if that I was just absolutely laughing and enjoying. But I have to be honest, I'm not loving three as much as I actually enjoyed the end of two personally. And I feel like they just haven't really decided what they want the show to be even as it's about to end.
But someone. We'll get back to that. Someone asked him about making movies out of the animated shows, which I thought was an interesting question.
And he didn't say no. So he said the idea of a what if movie or an X Men 97 movie.
[00:56:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:56:57] Speaker B: I mean, has been kicked around. But what about an animated movie to end the series? Do you want to see that? I think that's what he's talking about.
So what if season three ends and then you do a two hour animated movie follow up to cap it or I think more, more interesting is The X Men 97 idea that that goes a couple seasons and they end it with a movie.
[00:57:18] Speaker A: Obviously I'm all for it, but would it be in the feet? Would you go see it in the theaters?
[00:57:24] Speaker B: This is my question. Is it big enough? Is it big enough to justify it? Like it could. Could you be like a can? I don't think this can be Moana too. Right? I don't think this could be Frozen two at the box office. I don't think maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.
[00:57:37] Speaker A: I don't even know.
[00:57:38] Speaker B: Could it be Spider? Could it be Spider verse at the box office?
[00:57:42] Speaker A: I think you at least make the attempt.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: I think with the X Men you should. I think with what if it should be a streaming movie. I don't feel. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't feel comfortable get people out.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: But X Men. Yes, X Men 97. You do make the attempt because of how. Listen, it got nominated for an Emmy. Yo.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: He's gonna win one. I think at some point I think these things are going to trade blows.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: Yeah, you better. Hopefully Samurai don't come out that year.
[00:58:10] Speaker B: Well, next time they are going to be head to head again. They are gonna. Wow. Wow.
[00:58:13] Speaker A: That's. That's very interesting. That's. That's gonna be the, the. The duel of. For The Emmy.
[00:58:19] Speaker B: We haven't gotten confirmation on Caped Crusader season two, but I think most likely points to all three would be out in the same year.
[00:58:25] Speaker A: Wow.
Very interesting. But, Yeah, X Men 97. They should. A film at the end of the. To conclude it or if they. If they go that route.
Yeah. Make the attempt to go into the theaters because there is a fan base for it and would be paid to go see. Of course, there was reactions, Brian, that we would. If we would have been in a theater watching this, everybody would have the same reaction.
[00:58:48] Speaker B: Oh, the Gambit moment. Are you kidding me? If that's.
[00:58:51] Speaker A: This is in theaters, that's movie stuff right there.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:54] Speaker A: In terms of evoking emotion, Episode nine.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Rips the skeleton out. Come on. Like, these are things. Yeah.
If it's a movie, we might have to do the over under and how many times you're gonna hear it.
[00:59:13] Speaker A: I think you could probably go in a movie.
That'll be interesting.
[00:59:21] Speaker B: So what if you're with me? I. I was curious if you were feeling the same kind of, like, letdown this season.
[00:59:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, man. Listen, man. The Hulk turns into Godzilla, man. Are you kidding me?
[00:59:33] Speaker B: That felt like trolling. That felt like, they gotta be.
[00:59:36] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's like, why? But why? But why? Why you want to play like that with these characters? This a shot straight out of King Kong versus Godzilla.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Maybe that's the World War Hulk test drive right there.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: It's like, yo, what are you doing? And then they're doing Volt. They're doing Voltron, yo.
[00:59:55] Speaker B: I said it was great. I was just laughing the whole time. When I realized that's what was happening, I was like, we're literally getting Avengers or. You hated it. I see. I was just amused. I was like, really? Really?
[01:00:06] Speaker A: I was not. I was. I was like, what?
[01:00:10] Speaker B: But that, to me, was also the thing about, like, I don't really think they've ever cracked what this show ought to be, which seems weird that they have it. But, like, remember, season two felt like we had settled into this more serialized build, and season three has been all disconnected and, like, a whole potpourri. There's that word again. Of, like, these, like, newer characters and, like, elseworlds type stuff. And I'm like, I think we're losing the. Kind of losing the lead here in what's going on. And the show's about to end. And I'm like, I just don't think you got. I think you guys missed it with this one. This show could have been great. And I just don't know that you ever got it.
[01:00:43] Speaker A: This is, we talked about this show before I even came out in terms of, you know, is. This is a series that you can do forever. As long as the MCU is, is, is making movies, you can continuously do stuff with this.
And I was hearing a conversation.
I forget what. I don't know if it was emergency awesome or New rock stars. I forget, but Nate Moore was describing some of the people that worked at Marvel or the people that they would like to work at Marvel. That, that they, they didn't really know too much about the comics. Right. That's the sort of people that they wanted.
And with what if, if you don't understand where what the essence of what if is, then you get people who don't know to do their own stuff. And this is what you get.
Garbage.
Visually fantastic.
[01:01:42] Speaker B: Yes, it looks great. They have figures.
[01:01:44] Speaker A: Visually fantastic. I, I can. But when I listen to what's going on and it's like the story, the conversation, I'm like, this is.
You have your small moments of like, okay, you got me interested a little bit, but. And then it just, it just, it gets lost.
[01:02:04] Speaker B: It feels like. Yeah. You know, the other thing that stood out to me, especially in this season is it feels like there's some sort of edict to make it more family friendly. Do you notice that, like, there's nothing like the strange episode from season one. Right. They don't go.
[01:02:19] Speaker A: That was a what if story.
[01:02:20] Speaker B: They don't go to those dark places anymore in this show. It's much more like, like mechanized Avengers. Becoming Voltron is a very like kid oriented thing. Godzilla, Hulk is a very kid oriented type of idea.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: This is the Disney vacation of Marvel characters. This is what happens.
Everything is being Disney fied right before our eyes.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: It's a fair question because the tone of this season has been much to me, much younger and much more family than even where season two ended. But certainly points in season one and it is standing out, especially because I'm not saying I love creature commandos. It's still probably not my shtick all in. But that's gone the other way. Right? That's a very adult animated show. A lot of blood, a lot of gore, a lot of sex, a lot of adult themes. Like. Yeah, there is a real contrast in terms of the target audience for those. These two shows. I think so. I'm just.
[01:03:19] Speaker A: I think there is a happy medium, man. I think.
[01:03:26] Speaker B: 97 is the medium. Yeah, that's a mature show that younger people can still watch.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: Blue Eye.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: I mean, Blue eyes, pretty adult, I don't think.
[01:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's a story. Story and how they tell that story, and it's unnecessary. You know, a lot of. A lot of the stuff they're doing, Creature Commanders is unnecessary.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: I agree.
It's just not. It's just my. It's not my thing. It's still the, like, Gun of it all. It's just not. It's the same as Peacemaker to me. It's just like, I can't quite get. I see that it's competently made, and I see that it's confidently written, but it doesn't resonate with me and doesn't hold me the way that X Men and Blue Eye did.
[01:04:02] Speaker A: And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the concern we have with Superman. That is. Even. That is just there by default because of the sensibilities of relatability of the story that's being told and how people converse and all this other stuff. If it doesn't capture me, if it's not a conversation that I'm like, you know, it isn't. If it doesn't capture me, that's gonna be a problem, but whatever.
[01:04:27] Speaker B: And if there's one, I'm telling you, like, I know it fits the Creature Commandos thing, and I know Gun is saying he's not. He's holding back on the pop music. If I see one Superman set piece with some kind of ska soundtrack, I'm. I'm Aaron Pierre on the phone in Rebel Riddles. Nah.
[01:04:51] Speaker A: All right.
Sony.
[01:04:55] Speaker B: God.
[01:04:58] Speaker A: There's a bunch of quotes, Brian, that we have to sort of really go through very quick because I gotta go in, like, 15 minutes.
[01:05:05] Speaker B: We can do this in 15 minutes. You know what? There are moments when we're doing this show where I know it's not arrogance to say you and I could do a better job than the people in the room. And this was one of those moments. Okay.
All right. So as we know, Sony Spider versus Dead officially post Craven, Sony's CEO.
[01:05:31] Speaker A: Yo, this is not.
I didn't even know it was the CEO. I thought it was just a Sony person, that that was an exec.
[01:05:39] Speaker B: The CEO Tony Vincent Cara told the LA Times, craven the Hunter is the worst launch we've had in seven and a half years that didn't work out well. I still don't understand, because the film is not a bad film. And then he doubled down. Let's touch on Madame Web for a moment. His words. Madame Web underperformed in the theaters because the press crucified it. It was not a bad film. It did great on Netflix. But for some reason the press decided they didn't want us making films of Craven and Madame Web. So the critics just destroyed them. They did it with Venom, but the audience loved Venom and made Venom a massive hit. Anyway, these are not bad films. They were just destroyed by the critics in the press for some reason. End quote. Pablo, fire everyone. There is no way we could be that oblivious if we were in charge.
[01:06:45] Speaker A: It's just that shows you that some of these people, man, and these high ranking positions don't know what's. They're not in touch with what's good.
They're not in touch. How can you say that with a straight face?
[01:07:02] Speaker B: Adam Webb is a good film.
[01:07:05] Speaker A: That is that like.
[01:07:12] Speaker B: You ain't got to lie, Craig. You ain't got to lie.
Morpheus is a good film. Like.
[01:07:19] Speaker A: Like what? What are you telling me right now? What are you telling is? This is.
[01:07:27] Speaker B: I'm just saying I was trying to think. I'm trying to put us in the studio, in the room.
So they're screening the final cut of that movie and he's sitting there being like, what?
[01:07:45] Speaker A: Like, like, if this was in a. Like if we were in that room and nothing. Like, let's say that was a safe room where we are free to speak our mind and not have any repercussions.
I would be like, are you kidding me?
[01:08:05] Speaker B: What the hell are we doing here, Harry?
[01:08:07] Speaker A: But they put it out anyway. Because if you're in a room full of people that don't get it, that don't understand that and don't. Not necessarily don't understand the business of filmmaking, whatever is understanding what's good and what's gonna make us some money. It's just not the names.
It's just not the name. You can't give me a Wolfgang Steakhouse and is raw and tell me eat it is raw.
[01:08:38] Speaker B: Unless I'm in the Revenant. That doesn't work.
[01:08:43] Speaker A: But it's. Yo. It's like, come on, man. That's why, like, you gotta let creators be creatives and then you handle you as an execs or whatever the business aspect of is supposed to support that creativity into.
But you should not have a lot of say in what people should like, because you don't know this genre, plain and simple. You do not know it.
And for you to say everybody, because you're saying everybody destroyed it. Everybody.
[01:09:20] Speaker B: Spider Man's point at each other. You're saying everybody else is at fault except us. This is Pure arrogance. This is. I know what's good and you don't. And the fact that you don't see that Madame Web and Craven and Morbius in those movies are good is your fault. And there's something wrong with you.
That's arrogance of a biblical scale. And like you can't.
[01:09:43] Speaker A: Yeah, these are the circles that certain people hang around with each other and just big themselves up. And everybody else is wrong because they know better 100%.
[01:09:54] Speaker B: There is nothing in any of those films where I guarantee if either of us was in the room and a lot of people, a lot of the people who didn't go see these movies, I guarantee if we put any of them in the room with the studio and you showed them a rough cut, you showed them a segment, they would have been like, no, like don't do that. Like that's a mistake. Like that is not something that is going to have broad appeal.
So the fact that either that, either that didn't occur. So he's got a bunch, he surrounded himself with a bunch of yes men, which is very possible. Yes people.
Or it did occur and the people at the top were just like, we know better than even our own creatives and we're just going to forge ahead because we know we're going to make money, which is either way, it's on you. For you to point the finger at us is beyond insulting. And I, you know, honestly, I'm like, I don't want Spider Man 4 to be bad, but when you make comments like that, I certainly ain't root. You know, it's like, what did Batman say? Like, I'm not gonna kill you, but I don't have to save you. Like, I'm not rooting for you to succeed when you tell me stuff like that.
[01:11:02] Speaker A: I'm telling you man is getting to a point where I've said the only way Spider man goes back to home, home for real.
By just not seeing Sony films.
Not Sony films. Sony Spider man, superhero related films.
Because that's the IP that everybody cares about that you're ruining.
Imagine a Spider Man 4 doesn't make.
[01:11:29] Speaker B: A billion dollars because his whack doesn't it make you. I mean, it makes me really wonder about the temperature in the room when Kevin and Tom Rothman are talking about Spider Man 4. When I read comments like this, I'm.
[01:11:41] Speaker A: Certain that it's, it escalates into a passionate conversation.
[01:11:48] Speaker B: I'm not saying Kevin's perfect, but he knows better than this. Yeah, yeah, he's not that disrespectful to the fans.
[01:11:54] Speaker A: No, but my God, it's. It's just. It's just. It's a sad situation when you got somebody, like, telling everybody. It's the names that pop into my head when I listen to this.
You already know.
I can give you two names that have pointed the finger at you saying that you don't know what you're talking about. This is great.
I mean, sure, we can. Equilibrium is one of my favorite movies when it's on, because it's hardly ever on, but when it's on, I watch it.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:12:39] Speaker A: And you can say, I'm crazy, whatever. But Madam Webman, Morbius, you're saying that they're good films. You got people. I'm gonna say it. John Campy out there say, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Black. What?
The movie was horrible. How can you say in the same breath the movie is horrible. I enjoyed it? It's. That's. That's crazy. I don't get that. I don't get that. It's garbage. We don't want to see it anymore.
[01:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah. It makes me think, like, so if I asked Tony Vincent, Cara, you know, the classic, like, you're. You're on. You're stranded on a desert island, and you can only take a handful of movies with you. It makes me think, like, okay, so he's taken Madame Web. Is he also taking Quest for Peace? Like, is he also taking Batman and Robin? Like, that's what it makes.
[01:13:26] Speaker A: Garbage is garbage, man.
[01:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: Like, let's agree on that.
[01:13:30] Speaker B: And it's like, we'll praise you when you just like, we. We gave you big ups for no Way Home. I understand, like, you shared that at Marvel. We gave you big ups for overcoming that. Don't insult us when we then don't show up for something that's not good. We did show up for something that was good.
[01:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:46] Speaker B: So don't act like everyone's out to get you and that's the only reason this didn't succeed. Like that. It just shows me, too, that, like, people like that do not learn from them. They don't hear the message being sent by the box office. They don't learn. That means they will make that same mistake again and again.
[01:14:06] Speaker A: They have infinite money to keep making those mistakes.
That's what it is.
But, yeah, I know that. I'm trying to put this movie in this.
I'm gonna try to put this show out Monday.
You want to give any, like, shout outs to, you know, like, a year?
[01:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I Think, well, listen, thanks to the audience. I mean, our audience has grown a lot this year and I think we really appreciate that and it's been nice to just see what people most respond to, you know, among the many things we talk about every week. But I think it's been, I think it's objectively been the best year we've had in terms of just talking about the content and, and Pablo does all the great work with the shorts and the editing and formatting and, you know, all those changes you see and improvements you see are all, all his. So I think that's, that's also been really, really cool to see. But yeah, no, I appreciate all the support and I think the cool thing is, like, this was really a lean year for content, if you're being honest, because of the strikes, you know, like.
[01:15:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:15:07] Speaker B: Whereas 2025 is like, duh year. So, like, I'm pretty stoked for like, between TV and film about the amount of things we're going to get a chance to talk talk about in 2025.
[01:15:18] Speaker A: So, yeah, 2025 is going to be a huge year for content and a lot of good stuff too. Not just superhero stuff, but other stuff as well. I would recommend you watching the Jackal.
[01:15:29] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So you like the Jack I was gonna give? Yeah. So I just got done watching Black Doves on Netflix. That was.
[01:15:35] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[01:15:36] Speaker B: Excellent spy show.
[01:15:37] Speaker A: The actual. The action sequence in the fighting was, was really, really well done. It'll be interesting to find out who choreographed all that, but in the first.
[01:15:47] Speaker B: Quarter alone, if we're leaving that because of the strikes, you know, Night Agents coming back, Reachers coming back, like, big stuff is coming back. I'm even catching up on little things. Like I started watching like doing Prophecy and Silo and just some stuff I hadn't gotten around to. Like, not bad. Like, I wouldn't say they're must watches, but like, I'm trying to get to some more, more of the content that's out there, but there's a lot coming in just early 2025, even before you get to, you know, the films, which obviously Cap 4 gets us started in Valentine's Day.
[01:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I just want to say thank you to all the people that, that comment in, on in the comment section and, and the discussions, although brief, still welcomed. And I want to hear what other people think about what we say and do. They agree, disagree.
But yeah, thanking Blackrock, thanking Freddie, Ric Flair, all those guys for coming on the channel and, and, and you know, Commenting and really being really listening to what we have to say and the way we say it. And one thing that I would say for. About our channel is that you are hearing the perspective of people who are fans of the genre.
But we're really honest about. Come on. You know, we. About what we like and what we don't like and where we're wrong.
[01:17:09] Speaker B: We also talk because we're trying to read tea leaves and predict more than just exactly. So we're going to be wrong quite a bit.
[01:17:15] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. But we. We have those discussions because I'm pretty sure some of these discussions are happening in the rooms as well. They have to be right. Although certainly not at Sony.
But they're happening.
So if you want to. Again, we're not going to be too long horns in terms of we know everything, but we are informed about this genre. This is what we like to talk about.
Trust me, there's been many a days that I've wanted to quit, but every time I talk about this genre, I really sort of escape and talk about something that I'm really passionate about. And I want people to, you know, to really understand what's going on. Because it can go like that because of the horribleness that we've been getting.
Because if Brian, if something's not making money, is not working, we can't continue doing this.
[01:18:14] Speaker B: I think people need to understand 2025 is a fulcrum year for that. I'm telling you, if Superman and Fantastic Four are both disappointments, I think that will be very significant in a bad way for the future of the genre.
[01:18:30] Speaker A: So, yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think. And we'll see you next time on the Nerd Jerry Report. And have a happy new Year and some goals and make things happen. We'll see you next time.
