Punisher Returns, Marvel Stumbles & Daredevil Falters — What’s Next

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What up, everybody? And welcome back to another episode of the Nursing Report. I'm your host, Pablo, and joining me, as always, is Mr. Brian Schultz. Brian, lots to talk about. We're going to be talking about Daredevil episode number three. The early viewership seems weak. And then at that point, we got to sort of ask ourselves, are people just getting over. Just tired of the superhero genre? Right. Brian, what did you think of it? [00:00:23] Speaker B: It's kind of like my reaction to the show so far, mixed. I thought it had some really strong elements. Most notably Kamar de los Reyes. I. I just, you know, sometimes life, you know, sometimes life gets in the way of art. Right. And this, I think, is one of those cases where his passing, I think, really is going to leave an impact on this show that was not intended. And I think it's unfortunate. And I think you could feel it very poignantly in this episode. And to me, he was the best part of the episode. And I feel like, you know, I feel like we are going to get. We were. And we are getting robbed of what could have been. You know, a real defining character arc here. I think this episode is the show they intended to make originally. That was my feeling. We know that in episodes two and three, they're using a lot of footage that was shot prior to the Netflix guys coming back. And this had very much the feel of the procedural, the courtroom drama, the. Not really a superhero show, really in any way, shape or form other than the one reveal. And I didn't mind some of it. I didn't love the execution of all of it. And so I kind of walked out of the episode feeling like similarly, like this was not bad. But I'm still not sold that this show is going to rise to the level of seasons one and three, in particular of the Netflix series. What do you think? [00:01:57] Speaker A: Again, I'm. I'm cool with it without the action sequences. Of all, the only thing I disliked so far is the action sequels. When he's Daredevil, when he's Daredevil, when he turned, when he. When he gets into his Daredevil thing. That first episode really took it down a notch compared to what we've seen in the past in the Netflix series. Outside of that, I still enjoy the performances. One of the things that people are sort of really clinging onto is his description of what Puerto Rico is like. Right. So he really gained a lot of fans in the scratch. In his description of it, I didn't see anything. I'm curious to see what it was about. The execution of it that you didn't quite connect with. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Do you think Matt's a good enough lawyer in this episode? That's my number one question. [00:02:57] Speaker A: There was some question. I was listening to John Roca, and he had a couple of lawyers there, and they were questioning his method even after he initially did not want the white Tiger situation to be brought out. And yet he did. Yes. I think Matt's belief was that after this, after he got off, that he wasn't gonna go out to be white Tiger. He, like, the next day he put on his suit and then he got got and it was like. I think. I think Matt was under the impression that once he got him off, that he was gonna. He was gonna have to change his life. And this is where that wasn't the case. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Well, this is also where I would love to know because to me, what happened at the end of this episode felt tacked on and felt shot after the fact, where they probably the actor had passed. So to me, this is where, like, what they were leading to dramatically may not be where we ended up because of what happened. But, yeah, so I came at the math thing from two different ways. So, number one is we really. We've rarely seen him argue like a true case in the courtroom. We've seen him in the courtroom for little snippets, like with Frank Castle, a notable example, but we kind of haven't seen him go round after round with the other side in this situation. So on the one hand, I guess I expected him to be a little sharper and a little ahead of the game, and it felt like he was kind of losing. And he even admits at one point he kind of did the white tiger thing out of desperation because his main plan had been derailed. And I'm like, well, you didn't see that coming like that. That seemed pretty obvious that that was going to happen to you. So that. That felt a little defying belief, especially when his tagline has been, I'm a really good lawyer, right? So, like, I kind of was like, well, if you're a really good lawyer, you gotta. You gotta Daniel Caffey, this, this. This type of situation, right? And, like, he, He. He kind of does and he kind of fumbles it. But, yeah, I will say there was a part of me that also wondered, was it intentional to make him seem a little less as an attorney without Foggy? That was the one thing in the back of my mind where it's like, okay, he doesn't have his normal running mate for trial prep. And I wondered if they were trying to send a message of like, well, he in this born again, this new iteration of Matt, he's not as good in the courtroom on his own or with his new part, his new law firm partner, as he would have been before 4 had Foggy been. Because Foggy, a lot of times in the Netflix show is kind of the brains behind the legal operation. If you remember the interplay, he's the one a lot of times coming up with the, like, the angles that they want to play. So it did make me wonder, like, was this a little bit of intentional? But I didn't love some of his mistakes over the course of this case leading to the desperation move. [00:05:55] Speaker A: I chalk it up to the change. I chalk it up. I chalk it up to the end of episode two, him becoming a little bit unraveled because again, it's been a year. He's. He's obviously been a good lawyer because he's living a good life. He has high inclines. So there is some, I guess, history there in terms of his expertise. This one, this case in particular, seeming to be a little bit hitting close to home. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Well, yeah, we'll get to that. This part I like. Yeah, so, yeah, we'll get to that. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that aspect and him having gone over episode, having gone through what he did in EP towards the end of episode two, yeah, it's a tough one for me to sort of look at in that way, but I just look at it as, you know, he's becoming a bit unraveled because of some of the things that have happened and of course, and as well as that being this being a situation that is close to him, I think maybe. [00:07:12] Speaker B: What I felt was if I think about the best episodes of Law and Order or I think about a situation like A Few Good Men, it felt like this episode wanted to go there, but kind of only went 80% of the way. And maybe that's what I was. That's what I was feeling was like, if you're gonna do a courtroom episode, like, give me the full slate. Like, let. Let him. Yeah, you can have surprises, but let him also out. Fox, a witness on the stand. Like, let, like, I don't know. It felt like the joust was a little uneven until he goes to what honestly seemed like a little bit of a hard to believe, all in maneuver right with the mask reveal. I was like, really? Like, would that be the play? Like, that seems pretty extreme, you know, so, you know, I get it that this, the part of this episode that's Kind of interesting is what's on trial is not Hector Ayala. What's on trial is really Matt Murdock. Right. He's sort of the trial of Daredevil and the role of that person in society, which is why his conversations with Hector are actually in some ways more interesting than what goes on in the courtroom. But that's where I was like, would Matt, even in this stage, would he take that decision out of another vigilante's hands like that? And, like, I don't know. There was a part of me, like, you question it for me, in terms of what he would do. You're writing this character sort of broke. [00:08:29] Speaker A: A bit of trust with him. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. You're writing this character into places that I'm not sure he would ever go, even in his darkest moments. And we've seen him down, right. In season three. He down, like, coming off the building, like, you know, he just. To complete rediscover himself. He has no faith in the system. And, like, he. He didn't do anything like that, you know, So I. I don't know. I. I just was like, he. Like I said, I didn't love the execution, but I like the idea of examination, the examination of this kind of personage. And he. Obviously, every comment he makes to Hector is a loaded comment because Hector doesn't know he's Daredevil, but Daredevil knows he's white tight. So, like, that was interesting to me. I enjoyed that part of it. But now I gotta ask you, because we, like I said, in the original incarnation, the way we understand it, episode two and three were supposed to be episodes one and two. So we were not that. We were supposed to basically not have Matt in the suit. We were only supposed to have that one little apartment fight in the first two episodes. Would you have liked it better had they not shown you the first episode with Foggy's death and the CGI kind of affected fight between Matt and Bullseye? [00:09:37] Speaker A: I mean, I ran. I. No, I still would not have preferred to see the CGI fight. That, to me, the execution of that was, to me, what was the downfall for me personally, the story wise. I think this whole notion that Foggy is still alive situation is sort of confuses me. [00:10:01] Speaker B: I think in the Born Again comic, he is alive. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:05] Speaker B: But I get it. The way they showed it. Be pretty tough. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like how you fool Daredevil, if it's. You know what I'm saying? Like, how do you feel Daredevil into. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:15] Speaker A: He heard his. We heard. We heard his last heartbeat. It would be hard for us, for me to believe how that was executed. [00:10:23] Speaker B: It would have to be like, Foggy or something bizarre. Like. It's not actually foggy that was shot. But then Daredevil should know it's not foggy. I don't know. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Punisher. A special update there. ScarJo doing the Garfield. I think she's just not. She's out. She doesn't want to be a. I think she's done. But. [00:10:42] Speaker B: But he does come back. He does come back. And in the Born Again comic, and I think people are also trying to read into. Eldon Henson is in season two confirmed. What is he in as flashback only or is he in it? [00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the only thing for me is the CGI fight scene was only that, like, I sort of. I could do without. And I would have wanted to possibly wait for. It'll be interesting to see the next fight scene or the next time that he's. He's Daredevil, what that looks like to sort of get that comparison, to see what they did, if they did something different. Did they take that from something? I don't know, but that's what I'm looking. I'm interested in seeing next. [00:11:27] Speaker B: Something like the death of Foggy is necessary in the first episode to give us a reason for why we're here in episodes two and three. Like, but this goes to the point of, remember, originally, this show was not supposed to be season four. And this is where I think you're running into the cross purposes of what they were building. Because if this is not season four, then you don't need the Foggy death. It's just another chapter in Matt's life. If it is season four. That's why you need it, because you have to continue the arcs of some of these characters that we've grown accustomed to. And so I think you need this propulsive catalyst for, like, why is Matt hanging up the suit? Like, why is he doing this? And you have to be able. You have to show an audience that didn't necessarily watch seasons 1, 2, and 3 what would catalyze our hero to. To. To be this jaded. Right. So, yeah, but I'm with you that, like, right now, given it the only Daredevil scene we've seen, that's the weakest it's been the single week. And, like, I hate to say it, and I get it, I give him a pass because of what happened to Kamar de los Reyes. But, like, the way White Tiger went out was also not a great staging. I get the music was kind of cool, but, like, the slow mo where he's just jogging and then he gets taken out from behind and, like. I mean, we'll see if it was Frank or not, but, like. I don't know. I didn't love that. I didn't love that. I don't think it was Castle, but, like. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, no, it definitely wasn't Castle. I think that'll be the thing that drives Murdoch to sort of seek out his brand of justice to those individuals that did that. One thing that sort of confused me was, like, that fight that he had at the. At the end of episode two, that dude should have had a neck brace or something because of the weight, because you just don't recover from that and walk out. You know what I'm saying? I fall like that. I don't know if I'm coming back. I'm sorry. [00:13:25] Speaker B: That's a recurring theme, though, we gotta be honest. For a guy who apparently. Who basically his official body count is zero officially in this show, let's be honest, man, there's a lot of dudes who ain't getting up from what he did to him, right? Like, because. Because remember in the Netflix show, even Nobu, he doesn't get credit for. Because Nobu gets up from him, throwing him off the building, and it's Stick who cuts his head off, right? Like, he throws Bullseye off a building and the metal in his back saves him from dying. Like, this dude is executing Mortal Kombat fatality moves on people. They just somehow not dead yet. [00:14:00] Speaker A: So word up, yo, that cop should have had a. Should have been with a neck brace. [00:14:07] Speaker B: When do you think he's back in the city? We've been told, remember, by the Netflix guys, they wanted to amp up the action, but make it more of a crime show. Like, how much suit do you think we're actually gonna get in episodes four? I mean, we'll get one by the end, but I'm just saying, in like. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Episodes four, I'd say by episode five, I think. [00:14:26] Speaker B: You think so? Okay. [00:14:27] Speaker A: We'll get some. I think we'll get some inclination by the next episode, towards the end, possibly. And. And episode five will be the way. I think we'll see more of. Of Daredevil in action. [00:14:38] Speaker B: We obviously get. The White Tiger successor is in the courtroom, right? Because in the comics, his rest of his family, it's like his niece. Like, you get other people in his. In. In Il's family become White Tiger. So I'm assuming, given what happened to him in real life, those characters being in the front row of the. Of this. Of the pews there is meant to show you. Like we're going to go that route to resurrect the character at some point, do you think? 100%. I don't think it's necessarily what they intended, but I think it's 100% what they will do at this point, perhaps in season two. [00:15:10] Speaker A: You're saying for the White Tiger character to come back? [00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:15] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny. I have completed a rewatch of the Netflix show at this point just to kind of okay by myself where we're at. I. I definitely feel this show is probably closest in spirit to season three in terms of some of what it's trying to do. But I have to be honest, in the rewatch, I really find myself missing the season one sort of detective work and physicality that he does at night. I'm missing that. I gotta be honest. I don't necessarily. I know that a lot of that resulted in some really cool martial arts and fight scenes, but I'm also missing the degree to which he explored, discovered, and learned things in costume or in the rag, like, at night. I feel like this show is missing that, and I am starting to miss that. Like, it's too much of a daytime. It's too much of a daytime show so far. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Hence the interest I have when he. When he gets back to that. How much of it is shown, how it's shown and his fighting, I can't get any more of this, you kill my teacher type of fighting. You know what I'm saying? He needs. There needs to be some actual skill involved in his fighting. [00:16:39] Speaker B: So. And I didn't remember to that point, Like, I didn't remember actually in season three how much they kind of scaled down his fighting ability because he, you know, was sort of post defenders and was definitely. His confidence was shaken. So he wasn't the same in season three. He's much more of like a boxer and a brawler. He's closer to what we saw in the bullseye fight at the start of this one. Whereas season one, he's a ninja, like season two, he's a ninja. And, like, I think he's got to get back to that at some point for this to really kind of take off. [00:17:11] Speaker A: I think. I think, honestly, Marvel has abandoned the artistry in choreography. [00:17:16] Speaker B: I mean, I don't think this show will succeed if it doesn't achieve some of that. And Rewatching season one, I was, like, blown away. And I didn't even remember, like, how many flips and jumps off walls and things he did in the context of fighting. That just looked super cool. And then you bring, like, Nobu in and you bring some of the hand in, you're like, man, these people are pushing it. Like, they're pushing the limit on what you can do. And I think they have to get somewhere close to that level at some point for this to really, really work. [00:17:46] Speaker A: But, I mean, because again, when he's Daredevil, he's fighting. Unless he's fighting a notable type fighter or foe, for the most part, he's going to be dealing with regular people. It's just how they execute that is. Is my concern. [00:18:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I think, like I said, I think this shows. You can definitely feel the seams so far, and it's just. It's how well they're going to blend this together. But episode three to me was like, oh, yeah. I really feel this is the. This is the original version of the show. I can feel it. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker B: I don't hate it, but I can feel it. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Yeah. What. How do you feel about the. The viewership of the show so far? Okay, so do you agree with the statement that people perhaps may not be caring too much about what Marvel has to offer anymore? [00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's something to that. I think there's also a. You know, you do have to bring in the Marvel falls under the Disney umbrella, and there's also, like, a parent company stain. I mean, look at what's going on with the Snow White premiere. Right. I mean, you want. That's the. See, like, that stuff is not Marvel. But I don't. I think it has some impact on Marvel because Marvel comes out of Disney, and so people look at that and they're like, well, that's. That's what I don't like about Disney these days. The number that jumped out to me was that the early kind of tracking for the early episodes was about seven and a half million people, I think, in the first week watch this show that was 1.7 million less than watched Agatha. That's what got my attention as a problem, because in no world should Agatha's audience be bigger than Daredevil's audience, given the. The legacy of this show. Yeah, you know, but we see, like, Captain America struggling at the box office. That thing's gonna maybe get to 400 million worldwide, baby. You know, and that compares to Quantumania was 476. Like, you know, I mean, Marvel. Marvel box office is. Unless it's like a Deadpool Wolverine culmination movie. These individual movies are retreating to a level that they were seeing in like phase one, you know, except it's inflation wise. It's almost 15 years later. So that's. That's not. That's not great, you know, but I think this viewership is the same way. This did not capture people's attention. And look, there's other stuff on, you know, Reacher's audience is big this year up season on season growing still. Right. So it's on at the same. These are on at the same time. I haven't seen numbers for like 1923, season two, but the Sheridan shows typically do pretty well. Like, so there's other stuff out there. And this thing is just not like front of the line for people. People. [00:20:45] Speaker A: The difference being this is a superhero show. You know what I'm saying, Brian? This is a superhero show. [00:20:53] Speaker B: And while I don't. Like I said, I don't think it's bad. I also don't think it's doing. It's not pulling an andor in the sense of like, it's come in so hot, all of a sudden people are like, yo, you gotta, you know, you know anything about Daredevil, you gotta check that out. I don't think it has that kind of urgency. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the difference between Netflix, when they did it, it's like, you, you. Here it is, all of it. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah. That's fair. [00:21:18] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:21:19] Speaker B: It was a bitch. [00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. This waiting week to week, yo, certain shows don't need it. Don't be. We want to know what happens. Like, what's. You know what I'm saying? Reacher, the show is so great. Paradise show is so great. You wait for the week to week, even though perhaps you wish you can binge it. But with Daredevil, it hasn't been so. It's like you want it to be good. You want to see what's next just to see if it gets better. But right now, we sort of. It has his little flaws here that, dare I say, people may skip a week or forget about it and don't see it. The viewership will get lower and lower. I don't know. Hopefully not. [00:22:02] Speaker B: But it's hard to imagine it's going to get higher, to be quite honest. Like I said, this is not secret invasion. This is not like, oh, my God, this is a train wreck. They ruined it. Right? But at the same time, like, I said, it is a crowded marketplace, and I don't think it's good enough that it has to be your first watch. Like, I like. Let's put it this way. You had someone that said, I only have time to watch one show this week. Are you going to tell them to watch Reacher? You're going to tell them to watch Daredevil? I would tell them to watch Reacher. [00:22:29] Speaker A: So you can look. So you can see what Batman looks like. [00:22:36] Speaker B: Forget Daredevil. We got the real nighttime hero over here. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Let's. Let's watch Reacher and just fantasize Batman and just watching that. You know what I'm saying? Because. Sheesh. Yes. So just let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of Daredevil episode three. I mean, again, we did a show called Good, Good, Not Great. Yeah, we realized it was only two episodes, but we were just talking about those first two episodes. We weren't really saying Good, not great for the entirety of the season. The season hasn't come out yet, but the first two episodes, there's an opinion there whether it's what we expected it to be or not. And it's just an opinion. But, yeah, let us know what you guys think of Daredevil so far. Are you recommending it to other people? Because I'm sure those. That first season, you probably were. That second season with the Punisher on the rooftop, I'm pretty sure was a favorite. That first half of the second season was dope. The second half of it, that's where it got a little bit like, oh, okay, wait, this is getting a little. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Bit out there, I have to say, on the rewatch, which I haven't revisited this show since it came out. So 2015, 2020-2018. Seasons one and two on rewatch now, to me, went up in their standing. Season three actually came down a little bit. Not gonna lie. I know that the consensus is that season three is the best season, but when I went and rewatched it, like I said, I really just forgot how good the nighttime staging, action and development was in season one. And I think I kind of forgot how good, how kind of atomic Bernthal was coming into season two. And so, like you mentioned, like, the first half, but even in the second half, don't forget the prison fights in the second half, his meeting of kingpins in the second half of the season. So, you know, the boat scene is in the second half of the seat. So, like, I know what you're talking about because, like, the thing with the hand gets a Little bit. That gets a little bit. We're getting toward defenders and a little bit out there. But I actually think second season is now a little bit underrated when I went back on the rewatch, and I think third is actually slightly overrated. Just. Just a touch. [00:24:52] Speaker A: I gotta rewatch it again. I gotta rewatch it again. [00:24:54] Speaker B: I also don't think I have to say this. I don't know if it's by design or whatever, whether just because he's older, I don't think D'Onofrio so far is quite as menacing as Kingpin as he used to be. And I just. That just might be. He's. He's almost a decade older because, like, if you listen to how he delivers the lines and he is physically bigger in seasons one, two and three, he is really putting pressure on his voice to make that kind of. I don't know what they call that stilted tone of Kingpin. And he doesn't do it as much in this show. He does it, but it's almost like a lighter version of it. And I wonder if it's because he can't. [00:25:33] Speaker A: We'll see once he starts to transform into this other guy back. Yeah, this other guy. Right now he's a bit more subdued. Like. Like Matt said, he is littered. Lighter step. So this is, you know, we have to see what it looks like afterwards. [00:25:52] Speaker B: But he. But in seasons one, two and three, even when he was super quiet and super composed, he was so terrifying and the voice was so terrifying. And in this show, the voice is just a little bit. It's just not as rough. But I said it may just be because that's really hard to do. And now he might be old enough. Because if you listen to it. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because if you listen to him, he is completely different. [00:26:16] Speaker B: You know, you try to do that for like hours on end, your voice will hurt. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Let's transition over to Punisher. A special update. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Well, I think it's interesting, like, dating back to the Netflix situation, even though only went for two seasons, John Bernthal really took a lot of ownership of this character on a personal level. And I think it's interesting to me that in his coming back to the role and Disney seemingly now giving a Punisher special, which I got, to be honest, I'm very excited about when they. When they said that, just because I feel like Werewolf by Night was really successful and this could be the kind of character that were a special, you know, an R rated special, TVMA special could be really good. But he made it clear that it's kind of his baby. So he's doing a lot of the writing for it. And he gave a quote at south by Southwest where he said, I care very deeply about Frank Castle, and I'm really grateful that I'm getting the opportunity to tell the story. I think the fans deserve. We're giving it our all and trying to tell a Frank Castle story, that we're going to turn our back on the audience. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be light. And I think it's the version this character deserves. I'm beyond grateful and honored that we get the opportunity. It's going to be dark. Frank has no interest in breaking out the dark, out of the darkness. It's not going to be easy. I don't know if that's the Netflix tone then, or what it's going to be, but it will not be Punisher light. I can promise you that. End quote. And he's writing it himself. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of that caring or care that he has for the Punisher or the character was transfer. Transferred from people who showed their care for the character. Because when he was doing his research, he. There was a story where he talked about when he went to go buy a comic book to. To read the Punisher, and the guy knew who he was and said, you're playing Punisher. And he. And he said, this is the books that you need. Forget about these other books. These are the books. Read this. And Cops and Veterans, they've all expressed to him how much this character means to them. And I think that energy sort of transferred over to him. And I think as far as he went into understanding who this character is, I would say he fell into a deep relationship into the psyche of Frank Castle. And so I think he aims to. To deliver a Punisher, whatever. This is, this special presentation, a true iteration of the comic books. And who Frank Castle is in doing. [00:28:54] Speaker B: The rewatch, I forgot how good he was at this and how riveting his performance is. And there were moments that I didn't remember. We talk about the rooftop conversation. There are moments I did remember. But there's a moment that's part of that conversation that I forgot that I really enjoyed on the rewatch, which is when the building attendant comes up to the roof because he hears the commotion, and Castle, he's holding the gun behind the door like he's going to shoot this guy. But then when he realizes that he served and he was a Marine, he. He. If the Humanization in that moment. And, like, the bond between the two of them for those 30 seconds is incredible. He like to switch flips even as he's like, in the middle of this, like, really intense discussion with Matt about, you hit them, they get back up. I hit them, they stay down, it's permanent, right? Like that. But then the second he, like, sees this other serviceman, he's like. He like lights up. It's just. It's a little thing where you're just like, this is really brilliant performance. And it's the same on the boat, which I did not remember their conversation on the boat when they're debating how to basically deal with that. And Matt finally says, my way is not working, so maybe this once we should do it your way. And he has this look of horror on his face where he basically is like, you can't do that. As much as he believes that that's the right way for him to do it. He looks at Matt, he's like, you can't cross that line. He's like, if you do that, you'll never come back. And it's such a complex sort of layering to it where it's like he's doing so much in these little scenes to where. Yeah, I. I can't wait to see what he can do in his own forum again, as opposed to just being, you know, in this show. I think he'll be great, but he's obviously going to be a supporting character, maybe even a cameo character. We'll see how much he actually gets in this. In this for season one. But, yeah, something that really highlights his ability. Maybe in like, almost streaming movie form or 90 minutes. Like, yeah, I'm there. [00:30:50] Speaker A: I can't wait. I can't wait. Sadie Sink has been involved in a lot of rumors as to who she will be playing. She's just been recently confirmed casted in Spider Man 4. Correct. [00:31:04] Speaker B: Correct. This is now official. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Yes, but no official connection to any specific character as of yet. Not that is subject to speculation. I believe that's mj. It only makes sense to have her as Jean Gray does not make sense. And it's like, what? And it's like, what are you trying to do here? Because if you don't pull it off, you're making a huge mistake. Listen, I would have liked for Parker to try to rekindle that romance with an MJ Zendaya's character, but it also makes sense for him to let it go, because that was the whole point. I think this is interesting for me. What do you. What are your thoughts on that? [00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think so. The Jean Grey theory is basically that Spider Man 4 as we kind of have gravitated toward it Maybe being Avengers 5.5 is that they're going to use Spider Man 4 as the entry point for more of the X Men. And so that's really been feeding the Jean Grey rumor for the long time. Sadie Sink obviously, you know, made her name on was it Stranger Things. So she's kind of one of the it younger characters. But one of the scoopers that kind of was reporting on this noted that she, she would be playing another like playing on like another well known redhead and that, I mean to me that has to be Mary Jane Watson. Right? Which is possible in this universe in part because Zendaya's character is mj, but she's Michelle Jones, she's not Mary Jane Watson. So there is room for that character to canonically exist. There's. I saw some theory as well that she could be Black Cat, but black hack's not red, not a redhead. So that, you know, I've seen Gwen Stacy as well, also blonde. Right. [00:32:51] Speaker A: So you could, you know what other name I heard? [00:32:54] Speaker B: What's that? [00:32:55] Speaker A: Firestar. [00:32:56] Speaker B: Oh, I did see that. Yes, you're right. You're right. Yeah, but yeah, exactly. I, I think she's, let's put it this way, if you're bringing in a true redhead to not play a redhead, it kind of seems like a, kind of a waste. Right. So I tend to think I would be with you. I put Mary Jane Watson as the odds on favorite and I'd probably put Jean Grey as the, the underdog for, for this. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Imagine him having to say MJ and then not be. It will hold a lot of much more meaning for him, you know, to have to sort of communicate with someone that reminds him of this person but is not this person. But still as mj, I guess for me makes it a little bit more interesting. [00:33:41] Speaker B: I think it's a pretty good idea actually because we know that Zendaya's part in Spider Man 4 is not that big because of scheduling. And as you said, I think there is emotional weight of like he meets this other girl who we got to remember like what's our stage, right? Nobody, he remembers everyone. Nobody remembers him. So he meets this new girl who he's interested in or she's interested in him and she kind of says like hey, just call me mj. Like that is going to mean something to him. Right. And that's kind of interesting, right? But it's also moving us toward a place in the comics that we kind of know we've always needed to get to. Somehow you gotta make quality young actors doing it. Like, I'm interested. Like, they physically look like they'd be a pretty good on screen pair. So this seems like, you know, this seems like a. You know, Marvel's had some interesting casting directions more recently, but historically, they've been pretty good at this, and this seems like a real win for them. So if this is right, I give them thumbs up. [00:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah, let's see. Let's see. Another redhead Scarlett Johansson. [00:34:47] Speaker B: We need a category. We just need, like, we did. We need, like, the Oscars. We got the Garfields. We're gonna start handing out. We're gonna start handing out awards. [00:34:54] Speaker A: I think this is a Garfield, man. [00:34:56] Speaker B: I do. Yes. [00:34:57] Speaker A: You really? [00:34:59] Speaker B: I think it's a Garfield with a. A price tag attached to it, certainly. [00:35:06] Speaker A: I don't know. I think for me, I think she's telling the truth about not being in it. But if she. If she's in the movie, that's. That's just another reason never to believe another actor. [00:35:21] Speaker B: That's not what she said. Her exact quote was, natasha is dead. She's dead, okay? They just don't want to believe it. They're like, but she could come back. Look, I think the balance of the entire universe is held in her hand. We're going to have to let her go. She saved the world. Let her have her hero moment. End quote. That does not say she's not in the movie. It just says the original 616 incarnation of Black Widow is gone. First of all, she's an executive producer on the Thunderbolts movie. Kevin Feige has said she's work. He's working with her on something else. Rumored to be Blonde Phantom. And now that Downey's back. Come on. Like, this is absolutely going to happen. But because of what they did to her with the Black Widow movie, she's gonna sit there and be like, she's. [00:36:05] Speaker A: Gonna ride it out. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Bag's not heavy enough. Bag's not heavy enough. That's what this is. But I just. Yeah, these people that are all trying to play it like they're not in it. Like, they're in it. They're just using their words carefully to be like, yeah, the original character I played may not be in it, but they're all gonna be in it in the end. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, let's see. Let's see. It'll be interesting to see what version of her character if it does happen. So you will be shocked that she's not in it. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I would. I'd be shocked if any of the original six were not in it in some form. I mean, hell, they. If they're on Track to spend $400 million as it is, what the hell is another $100 million? Like, you might as well just pay whatever's necessary to get the original people back. Like, in for a penny, in for a pound. They're all going to be back now, whether they're all in five or whether some of them are only in six, who knows? But, I mean, they're all gonna show up before this is over. [00:37:04] Speaker A: I. My favorite Hulk is Ed Norton's Hulk Retime that movies on. For certain parts I watches this, and sometimes I. Certain parts I don't watch because it's sort of, you know, it's whack. But I really enjoyed watching, especially the. I would say the first half of that movie, the Incredible Hulk. [00:37:24] Speaker B: You know, the irony of that is we're just talking about Bernthal and the amount of creative control he's been able to secure over the Punisher. It does show you that, like, if you. If you handle your business a certain way, Disney will allow that. Which is exactly what Norton always demanded. Right. He was the guy who had to rewrite and have final say, but he pissed off so many people in how he did that that Kevin literally wrote a letter basically being like, never again. But, like, with John Bernthal, they couldn't wait to bring him back, and they're like, hey, you want to write your own character for your own special? Have at it. Right? It's a. It's the same artistic outcome, but two totally different relationships, different approaches. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of a Scarlett Johansson saying she's not going to be in it. It'll be interesting. I don't think she's going to be in it, but if she is, you know, whatever. It'll be interesting to see, though, what sort of difference in the character, if any, shows up. Warner Brothers. No, speaking of, you know, having your eggs all in one basket, Superman is the character that we've. Ever since the beginning of this. You can go back if you've been following. Following us and listening to our show for. For as long as you probably have. We've talked about this over and over again, how pivotal Superman is for the DCU and for the future of that ip, because, again, if it don't work out Even if it does work out, I still say Zaslav is gonna sell. But, Brian, tell us how important Superman is for wb. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Well, we, I'll leave out the stuff we already discussed, we went through in our previous recent DC show, which you should check out about sort of the, this, this weird event that they did to update Chapter One, which was mostly delays and almost like we're shuttering some of these or figuring things out. It was very odd, right? And we speculated that money was at the core of, of the issue. And we talked about some of these other movies not in D.C. that were high budget, had big stars or big directors that like just kind of made no sense. And since then, we've actually gotten a little bit of confirmation because Mickey 17 was one of those movies. Bong Joon Ho, the director, Robert Pattinson, the star. It's now out. Opening weekend was only about 43 million globally. So that's a north of $100 million movie that needs to make north of $200 million globally and is not going to get anywhere near that and is actually going to streaming, I believe, next week already. So. But this article on Puck News that took that idea and went deeper on it was mentioned that there are a lot of rumors that Mike and Pam, as in Michael DeLuca and Pamela Abdi, may be out as the movie heads at Warner's, even though that's been denied. But there was. The rumor is they would be out and none other than Peter Saffron would be shifted over to take their job, which obviously would directly affect the DC operation because he's sort of the production arm of James Gunn's creative. So now you've got a real gun, needs a partner. He can't do this on his own. So Saffron's going to run the whole movie division, who's really helping supervise dc. And then the article goes on to say that not only is Superman the make or break film for the DC universe, it is the make or break film for the entire studio. With, quote, genuine fear. The studio goes the way of Fox. If the movie does not succeed, doesn't say what success is, but it's definitely a queasy feeling because as you and I have discussed many times, like, this is not a cheap film. This is also not a film where you can say a billion dollars is, you know, a layup. Like, you know, if this movie is a solid success and, you know, critically well regarded, but makes like 750, like, I assume that's good enough. But this makes it sound like the studio Needs more than that to cover up for the failures they've had and the checks they've written elsewhere, which is kind of what we talked about last time. [00:42:09] Speaker A: 750 is the hope for a better future. A billion dollars is a, is a go. You know how you go to those, those, those, those, those Brazilian places that they keep serving you meat if you. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Want the Royal Discus Black or whatever. [00:42:31] Speaker A: Yo, if you said if it's a billion dollars, go, this 750, you're sort of just waiting and, and seeing what the possibilities are, rather than completely throwing your hands up in the air and be like, I'm done with it. But if it's like 400, 300, and it's poorly reviewed, it's over. It's almost over. I don't want anything else. [00:42:53] Speaker B: It's over. Yeah, I think the only. At that point. Yeah, yeah. At that point, Supergirl would happen because they're shooting it right now. And The Batman Part 2 will happen because it's Elseworld. Nothing else will happen. The tv. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. The TV division will happen. Right? HBO will happen. Lanterns will happen, because that's on the TV side. But movie wise, nothing else will happen. [00:43:14] Speaker A: But I think at that point, we are reverting back to the old ways. The WB handled superhero IP right, and not building this universe because this doesn't seem to be something. I guess not to say that the people don't want it. We just want it done well. We want it done right. We want to get to that place. We don't want to just be given. Taken to that place immediately and us trying to figure out what the hell is going on. [00:43:45] Speaker B: I tend to agree with this article. When you look at how long the Zaslav tenure has gone, if this movie is not successful, the studio will not survive. Like, not. Not as an independent entity. Like, I do agree with that idea. They are running out of time and they're running out of time quickly. And even if Superman does a billion dollars, that is not everything. That is not Superman saving the world. That is Superman. He's holding it up, but he's, he's struggling. He needs, he even. He needs help. Like, that's just by. It buys them time. It buys them time. I got to be honest, it's one of the things that makes the whole Matt Reeves situation, I would bet, infuriating for David Zaslav because that is a guaranteed moneymaker, that he's having to wait two and three years longer than he anticipated for. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I can See that? I can see Zazlov going crazy. I'm pretty sure it was as idea about bringing in Pattinson's into this Justice League into the dcu. [00:44:48] Speaker B: But Zaslav's got to own this, right? He's the one who put Mike and Pam in charge. He's the one who greenlit the checks for Black Adam. And the end of the day, like, you can say the people you. You can start firing your coordinators, but the buck stops with you, man. Like, at the end of the day, like, you're the one who, you know, you're a Discovery guy, you're a reality TV guy. Like, you know, this company still reflects your image and your idea. Like, they don't get to write 100 million, $150 million checks for some of these art house movies unless you think it's okay. So, yeah, it's not like it's in. At the end of the day, he's still the CEO. He's the captain of the ship. But I think the vultures are circling. I think the phones are already ringing. He's just not picking up the call yet. And I think the question is going to become, if we get to that stage, is this thing sell saleable in its entirety or are people going to just try to chop it up? They're going to say, like, I just. I just want D.C. like, I don't want. Or I just want the reality tv, I don't want the movie house. Like, I think that's really the question you start to wonder about. I guarantee you Amazon is going to be tough to beat for D.C. already got the hooks in there. I'm telling you, that is like they get the battle in there already. [00:45:55] Speaker A: They are. They are the one studio that is streamer that's looking to compete really for real with Netflix, but wants to go eater. [00:46:07] Speaker B: Netflix is not willing to commit theater like full bore. Amazon is. That's why D.C. to them matters. [00:46:15] Speaker A: I think Netflix, if they want to be innovative, they should build out their own theaters and make it a Netflix experience. [00:46:23] Speaker B: That's what I said. [00:46:23] Speaker A: Going to the movies. [00:46:24] Speaker B: That's what I said. I. You and I had this talk during the pandemic. They should be building theaters and honestly, they should be like binging their shows on the big screen in the. The. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Like you. [00:46:33] Speaker B: Some people wouldn't go watch Stranger Things Season 5. They show up for a theater. Come on now, come on now. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Make it. You got to make those things events, you know, make re release season one. [00:46:43] Speaker B: And put it in a Netflix theater. You get you make. Netflix has made shows much bigger than they were. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Suits. [00:46:49] Speaker B: Like, think about that. Suits. LA exists because Netflix syndicated it. Like, yeah, I'm with. It's baffling. I get it. They don't have the resources that Amazon and Apple do, but I think they'd make money on this. I think they make money on this. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Let me ask you this before we move on to Fillion. If Zaslav came to James Gunn or he made a deal with, let's say, Amazon, that it included James Gunn in the deal, like, you would have to take. Like you. I'm sending DCIP the DC ip, but you'd have to bring in James Gunn as. As well, so that he can continue. Because let's say. And I'm saying this with respect to. Let's say Superman is dope, okay? And it makes a lot of money. Let's say it gives the 750. Right. We're not gonna get a billion dollars on Supergirl. [00:47:58] Speaker B: No. [00:47:59] Speaker A: But let's say that it provides a little bit of hope of good. Like, it provides them a little bit of hope for the next person or whomever wants to possibly purchase. Is saying that we are on a good track here, but we want to sell. Anyone said it anyway. Would. Would James Gunn be a part of that deal? I wouldn't say James Gunn wouldn't want to be a part of that deal. I mean, I. I would. I don't see him not wanting to be the guy to continue doing. Creating this world. [00:48:35] Speaker B: I'm gonna say, odds are, no. I think Amazon will want to choose its own people, but I don't think it's. I mean, if Superman's great, I don't know that James Gunn would be summarily ruled out as a candidate, but I think he'd have to reapply for the job. I don't think he would just get the job. I don't. Because I think Amazon is going to want to structure it the way they want to structure it. And so they're. They're like, we're buying the ip, we're not buying personnel. They just went through this with the bond situation, with a situation where they had less control. Right. So it's like they want to be able to run this how they want to run it. And maybe guns a good fit. Maybe he's not. [00:49:15] Speaker A: But. But they're going to have to restart all over again, wouldn't they? [00:49:18] Speaker B: Of course, yeah. They don't have to. Like, if Superman's a massive success. They could also just say James Gunn, you're the director and writer of the Superman franchise. You're just not the head of our DC studio. And I don't know that James Gunn would say no to that. [00:49:35] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know if he would say yes. Because instead of running the studio or being a Kevin Feige, now I'm just a director back to what I used to do. But I'm doing it with characters, obviously that I love and everything like that. But I was at one point in control of all of it. Now I'm not. Do I want to continue just being a director for this sort of ip or I just do. I just want to continue making my own movies. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Well, then I could see a scenario where Amazon would, would simply just replace the director. But then the next Superman movie would be a continuation of this. They could do that. I mean, they could just say this is Superman 2 with David Corden Sweat and Rachel Brosnahan and Nicholas Holt, who, by the way, rumors are he's amazing. That's the one thing I have heard is that he apparently is really good at Flex. [00:50:23] Speaker A: That's good. [00:50:24] Speaker B: But, but yeah, so you could see that that's not unprecedented. You know, I mean, hell, I mean, things were going well for Marvel and they still said Joe Johnston is the right guy for the period piece Captain America. He's not the right guy for the sequel. In come the Russos, right? That wasn't even a acrimonious situation. They just changed directors by design. I just think Amazon's going to, you know, they're going to pay that much. They're going to have control. They're going to pick their people, they're going to do it their way. They're not going to be told because I mean, like, in that negotiation, who's going to have the leverage? It's not going to be David Zaslav. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Fillion talks. Guy Gardner. What did he say? [00:51:00] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean, this, this character doesn't sound like it's going to be. I think he's responding a little bit because the character looks ridiculous and he's kind of saying that's the point. So he said the character is a jerk. And what's important to know is you don't have to be good to be a Green Lantern. You just have to be fearless. So my Guy Gardner is fearless. He's just not very good. He's not nice. Which is very freeing as an actor because you just think to yourself, what's the most selfish self serving thing I can do? In this moment. And that's the answer. That's what you do. If he has a superpower, it might be overconfidence, being that he thinks he could take on Superman and he can't, end quote. I mean, it definitely sounds like a role Nathan Fillion could play very well. I just don't know if it's one that we're going to love when we see it on screen or we're going to feel like it's a distraction to the. The main event. [00:51:47] Speaker A: I'm already aware of who, and I'm sure most people out there who are fans of the lore of DC and its characters are familiar with Guy Gardner. So far we've gotten a look at him in the trailers, and again, he's very comic book accurate. There's so much to see. We. We've seen very little. Very little. There hasn't been that second boost of excitement that, that you would get from a second trailer because that. [00:52:25] Speaker B: I think we have a date for it. [00:52:27] Speaker A: For a trailer. [00:52:28] Speaker B: Yes. When April didn't get a lot of press, but April 18th is Superman Day. Why the official. It's like, you know how Batman days in the fall, there's always like global Batman Day every fall and they put the movies back in the theaters. So global Superman Day is April 18th. [00:52:47] Speaker A: Ah, okay. [00:52:47] Speaker B: There was a tweet sent out by the official DC channel kind of advertising, like a lot of like on April 18, they would do a retrospective and some cool stuff to honor the character. But at the end it just said, I wonder what else might drop question mark. [00:53:05] Speaker A: Trailer number two of excitement about that. Brian is telling to me, you're right. [00:53:11] Speaker B: I haven't seen a single news story about it. I saw the tweet, but I didn't see anyone be like, new trailer coming April 18th. [00:53:17] Speaker A: What we've gotten after the trailer has been whatever. So any news that you give us is whatever. And hopefully this. This trailer is something and not more of nothing. [00:53:32] Speaker B: My fear is that it's going to show too much for the reason you just said. It does feel like they've lost the initiative a little bit on this and because they have and because of. We just talked about the desperation involved to get people to the theater. My fear is you're going to see a lot in this trailer. Like it might be a three minute type of deal and you're like a lot of the set pieces, a lot of the stuff is going to be shown to you that would scare me. Just given where we're at the little stuff. We've been hearing, like I told you, I've been hearing that the buzz that Nicholas hold is great. Like a really good Lex Luthor. Been hearing also that, like, there's a lot of cameos that have not gotten reported. Like notable Superman villains that are just like, in and out. And then there's the one which is Jerrell. That's been the big one that sort of got people's attention that there's supposedly a real heavy hitting a lister as Jarell in a small, small capacity in this film. And the leading rumor right now is that Tom Cruise is that person. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Interesting. I'm not mad at that. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Mean. [00:54:34] Speaker A: Hey, we got. Who is Jarrell? The big name, the big dogs. We got Marlon Brando. Marlon Brando. Who else was Jorrell? [00:54:45] Speaker B: Russell Crowe. [00:54:46] Speaker A: Russell Crowe. So we expect a big name, perhaps not Tom Cruise, because he's never been associated really with superhero type film. [00:54:57] Speaker B: And keep trying. [00:54:58] Speaker A: The fact that. [00:54:59] Speaker B: Yeah, Iron Man. Right. They keep trying. Well, supposedly that was. Right. Well, that's because they did talk to him. That was not like in the. In the rise of the mcu. Like, that was a real conversation. It happened like they. Yeah, there was a chance at one. [00:55:11] Speaker A: Point, but thank God they didn't. [00:55:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Why? Because then we'd have Tom Cruise as Doom today. [00:55:22] Speaker A: We probably would have gotten a recast almost immediately. [00:55:25] Speaker B: Do you want to see him as Jarrell? Does he strike you as Jarrell? [00:55:29] Speaker A: Tom Cruise? He is a willing. If he. If he puts it. The thing is about Tom Cruise. If he puts his name to it, I think you're gonna get his best or at least try to get his best. Even he. I mean, he hasn't done. He's done a lot of great movies, obviously, and some haven't been that great. But I think him as a performer, I think he gives his best. And I think I'm fine with it being him being Joel. I'm curious to see what this Jord looks like. I'll be fine with it. I'm fine with it. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I'm having a tough time. Like, I mean, I guess you could. You can. You can achieve anything with. With effects and vocal effects. But I'm trying. I'm not hearing Jerrell in the. In the Tom Cruise voice, I guess. So I don't know when they got on this, then I started thinking about, like, okay, we don't even know what this style of Jarrell looks like. Right. We don't know what, like, what. You know, Russell Crowe's was like a general. Right. More like a Wartime figure like Marlon Brandos is more like an Olympian, like Zeus, you know, that was kind of that style. So I don't know what they're going for here. There's a part of me that thinks it would be sort of in a nod to fandom in a cheeky sort of way. Like, what about having Nick Nicholas Cage do it? Right. He's the ultimate Superman fan who never got to be Superman. Like, could you dress him up and have him be an iteration of Jerry? [00:56:53] Speaker A: It's hard to take him seriously, though. [00:56:56] Speaker B: I get you. I get you. But I'm saying you want someone who would give you their best because he. This is the character that he. I mean, literally, he named his son. Didn't he name his son Kal El? I think he did. [00:57:06] Speaker A: I didn't know that. [00:57:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I think he has a son named Cal. Hyphen. L. Yeah. [00:57:10] Speaker A: So knowing that, who knows what kind of performance you get? [00:57:14] Speaker B: That's what I mean. You know, I. I don't know. [00:57:16] Speaker A: So. [00:57:17] Speaker B: And it's just not. This is not Jarrell in the sense of. Brando's character was a real driving force of the storyline. Russell Crowe's character was a real driving force of the storyline. Just Terrell sounds more like, you know, a real. Like a very small part. So it allows you to kind of maybe have more latitude. But anyway, so that. That was also in the rumor mill, but I'm with you. April 18th sounds like it's a date we're gonna have to circle and maybe do an immediate reaction and see if they can get the buzz going again. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of the latest at wb. Bond. They made Amazon made its statement as to who this Bond will represent, who he will be, and good for them. What was said. My. [00:58:04] Speaker B: It's in the con, supposedly, in the contract of the buyout from Wilson, from Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson. There's a. There's a stipulation that, quote, the spy will not change gender or nationality, meaning Bond can never be gender switched and he must be British or from the Commonwealth. So no American. So American actors need not apply in case you're. In case you're wondering. Yeah. [00:58:36] Speaker A: Thank you. Broccoli. The broccoli's for. For putting that in there. [00:58:42] Speaker B: That's protecting the. Protecting the integrity of the. Of the character as written. Absolutely. [00:58:47] Speaker A: Think it was. It needed to be spelled out. And I'm happy for. For that Harry Potter producer is taking over. [00:58:56] Speaker B: So there's a. Yes. David Hyman. I think is his, is his pronunciation. So he was the producer of the entire Harry Potter series for Warner Brothers. And there's a rumor that he will be kind of the czar. Right. He'll be the James Gunn Peter Saffron figure or the Kevin Feige of Bond. And so that is a rumor that's going on. They may, they may kind of give the keys to him. And that while we've heard they've reached out to Christopher Nolan as sort of their top choice, that their number two choice would be. Alfonso Cuaron, who directed Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, obviously has won multiple Oscars. Like if he's your plan B, you're. That's not bad. So they're, they're aiming high for, and high in terms of artistic quality for, for directors. But so we have these two that's. We got Nolan one and Cuaron two and as your leading contenders to direct the first Amazon Bond movie. So I don't hate that. I mean I want Nolan first obviously, but I don't hate Cuaron. He's very, very creative guy and his movies look, look amazing. [00:59:56] Speaker A: So yeah, some tidbits we haven't, we've been hearing a lot of, of he man, but we haven't heard a lot of another possible smash hit. [01:00:13] Speaker B: Voltron, which is filming, has been filming for two months. I texted you, I said this is inexcusable. Where are the sluice? They got that. [01:00:23] Speaker A: I think a lot of it has to do with them filming elsewhere and perhaps not a lot of people getting the having the ability to take some photos and leak them. And I, I'd say is a well kept sort of secret in terms of how they're doing this, which is so. [01:00:41] Speaker B: To them it is because this would seem like an impossible project to really keep under wraps. They're shooting in Australia. We know Henry Cavill's been down there since December. He actually there was a panel at some con recently that had like a lot of the Superman actors from TV and film all got together for a panel and he was the only one who couldn't attend because he was filming Voltron at the time in Australia. But I said to you it's like we haven't gotten anything. And then we got one leak. And I was like, well, that's interesting. [01:01:12] Speaker A: Because someone else we know he's in. [01:01:14] Speaker B: That joint, but what's he doing there? That's a long way for him to go for just to hang out. [01:01:21] Speaker A: I think he's hanging out. Okay. Okay. I think He's a Voltron fan and he got access. That's it. [01:01:30] Speaker B: That could be. So Chris Evans was spotted on the set of Ultron and there is a photo of him on the set. He's down there with his wife, I believe. And yeah, no confirmation of what he's doing there, how long he was there. But, like, there are those. That's the first Voltron set photo we've seen is of Chris Evans hanging around. And I'm just like, okay, so there was a promotional image that showed nothing. It was just like the logo. But the of like, it was a logo on like a camera or like a prop. [01:02:01] Speaker A: Okay, but. [01:02:02] Speaker B: But the logo they used is the original one. The original, original one from the 80s TV show, not any of the, like, Netflix incarnations or the later versions they did is. So it got people speculating, remember, because there was talk of, like, who's Cavill playing? Because which Voltron force is going to be in this now? People are thinking because of that, they're gravitating that it is the original batch. So Keith, Lance, Hunk, Pidge, Laura. Okay, for what it's worth, that's what I would vote for. That's the classic. Yeah, you should do the classic. [01:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah, give me the classic. [01:02:36] Speaker B: Like trying to do the car. Voltron before the lion Voltron. That's idiocy. [01:02:39] Speaker A: You got to do the original. [01:02:44] Speaker B: It's like a roller skates. [01:02:45] Speaker A: These are roller skates. Yeah, you got to get the lions, yo, the lions. Yeah, we've seen the car stuff. We just go to Transformers. You're not missing anything. Vulture. The lions form Blazing Sword. What? Imagine what these guys are thinking about. That brings me to he man by the power of. Just think about what that's gonna look like, how that's gonna sound. Because if you remember how he man said by the power it sounded, the. The acoustic of his voice was crazy. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:27] Speaker A: I'm just imagining how that experience is going to be in the theaters, Brian. I gotta be in the theaters multiple times to see that. [01:03:38] Speaker B: So it's so funny. Bring that up. So funny. You bring that up. So we re so, like, I was trying to explain this to my kid and I was like, fine, we're gonna. We're gonna watch an episode. All went out. She was like, nah, we're not doing any more of that. But I will say to your point of the. The only time you can listen to he man's voice is when he says by the. Like I have. Because they changed the audio effect. Like, he's almost in like an auditorium. And it's like this echo. And I will say this. Of all the things that I cannot forgive the Dolph Lundgren version for, he. Him messing up the rhythm of that line is criminal. You know what I'm talking about? He says it too quickly. He says it like rapid fire. And, like, in the cartoon, he takes his time. I'm like, how could you mess that up? [01:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't even remember what he said. [01:04:43] Speaker B: No, he says, I have the power. But he says, like, I have the power. He says, like, really quick. Whereas in the TV show, he pauses like, I have the power. He. [01:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah, they gotta make that. That. That part right there. And then when he transforms. Cringer, yo. That moment is worth the price of admission. [01:05:04] Speaker B: Agreed. [01:05:05] Speaker A: They cannot mess that up. They got. That has to be a spectacle. [01:05:09] Speaker B: But my kid was also so out on Orko. She's like, he's so annoying. She was just like, he's so annoying. [01:05:20] Speaker A: Has she watched Done the Cats yet? [01:05:22] Speaker B: I haven't shown her that one yet. I've told her about it. She's actually more excited because she loves animals and she loves lions. That sort of. I'd say we'll save it. But I said, this one will watch. And she was like, this is ridiculous. [01:05:33] Speaker A: He man is not a good watch, yo. [01:05:36] Speaker B: Because, yeah, I found an episode that had, like, we had everyone. We had Beastman, we had Merman, we had Ram Man. We had all of them in there. And she was just like, who are these people? [01:05:46] Speaker A: None of it is good. No, no. He man is not good, yo. [01:05:56] Speaker B: But I will say this. [01:05:57] Speaker A: What makes it so interesting? [01:05:58] Speaker B: So I wasn't familiar with Glitzen. He did do something that was really popular, not in a genre that we would watch. And if you ever need to worry, like, this is why you should never worry about an actor's physical appearance when they sign for a role. So he was the younger kind of boy toy lover of Anne Hathaway in the Idea of you on Amazon, which was based on, like, this phenomenally successful book. If he's 160 pounds in that movie, it's pushing it. But if you look at him now, if you look at him, the way he's trained up, he's enormous. [01:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:06:38] Speaker B: He's put on, like, 75, 80 pounds for this role for. For He Man. And, like, he starting to look like he man. Like. So that's why I say, like, when people are like, that's what made, like, people like, oh, rich and can't be back. Like, stop it. He can change his weight by 15, 20 pounds at the drop of. These people can do that quickly with the training regimens and the nutrition. [01:07:01] Speaker A: For people who say. When people say that, it just drives me up a wall. Like, how do you think Arnold Schnegar made his. Yeah, he had charisma, but he looked the way he looked always. He was always a big guy. He. Very few moments where he was the small guy in the. In the room, he was a big guy. He just moved well, especially his was Conano Barbarian. You can't imagine that being he man. [01:07:25] Speaker B: That's what I mean. Yeah, it's like, exactly. I mean, I think in another. I mean, honestly, we talk about Richard in another life, he could have played he man with that physique. I think he's a little older now, that look, but he could have done it if that. You know, it's like. That's why I say, like, don't worry about that stuff. Like, these actors will do what's necessary. And you look at this guy who, like, has a really slender, natural build and he's. He's put on a lot of beef to play this role to where you're like, okay, like, I see it. [01:07:53] Speaker A: I'm telling you, man, my. I can't wait to buy my ticket, man. I can't wait to buy my ticket. Last thing before we sign off. Joanna Robinson, who is one of the co authors, right. [01:08:11] Speaker B: Of the primary author. The co author of. Yeah. Rise of the mcu. [01:08:16] Speaker A: Rise of the mcu. She reported that the real cap for budget was not the $180 million Disney reported. Dare I say add 200 million to that? That's another movie, yo. $200 million. That's another movie. That's. That gets you almost to Electric State. That's crazy. [01:08:49] Speaker B: But that makes a lot more sense in the context of what we heard when they said it was 180. I'm like, hang on a minute. [01:08:57] Speaker A: Everybody was calling that movie twice. [01:09:00] Speaker B: Like, you can't. So the 180 was probably what the original budget was. [01:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:07] Speaker B: The 380 is where you ended up prior to marketing. And if you assume they probably spent another standard, like $100 million like they were in, that means they were in for probably close to 500 million on this. And the total box of which they're only going to probably keep about half is going to be about $400 million. So they might lose like $300 million on Captain America 4. That is not good. That is not good. [01:09:38] Speaker A: Yo, Brian, did you know that there is a Netflix series is that sort of thing. Or this lack of transparency and being quite honestly being dishonest about how much you spent. And it's like that's the sort of stuff that makes us. Makes people just like not wanna. I don't know, is that there's a bad connection there, a bad feeling towards your product and what you do is. I don't know, they. Why lie about it? [01:10:12] Speaker B: You know why, because you don't. Yeah. The weird thing is you can't because when Disney reports earnings the next time around, they'll probably have to take a write down on this movie. And so then you'll kind of be able to back into at least if they, they may not call it out specifically. But like you'll kind of know like, well, if the film division took a write down of X million dollars like now Disney might have, depending on how this goes with Snow White, they might be taking a couple of write downs in this first fiscal quarter, a first calendar quarter. Because if cap, if cap is like 200, 300 million dollar loss and snow White, all this controversy leads to poor box office for that movie. Like they might. [01:10:47] Speaker A: What's the controversy with Snow White? [01:10:50] Speaker B: Oh man, where to start? Okay, so it's coming out March 21st. So Rachel Zegler is Snow White drew a lot of controversy because immediately upon getting the role gave an interview in which she said she hated the Disney version of Snow White because she would never be saved by a prince. She would never. I went through all this stuff and she's like, the only reason I'm playing Snow White is because she can be the leader. We all know that she should be. But she's like, I watched the original one once and I had a difficult time with it. I never want to see it again. So that was controversy number one. Controversy number two was the Dwarves were then shown as magical creatures of different sizes and ethnicities that led to certain people in the community of. Martin Kleba actually was notable. If you look him up, he's. He's played a number of small characters and is a small person. And he, he basically was like, you took our jobs like wtf? Like, these are roles that are important to the community. We need to be true to that. And so people were like, well, this is Disney going woke again and you know, doing all. Doing their whole agenda stuff. So then they walked it back and they made the Dwarves CGI and they looked terrible in the trailer. To which Peter Dinklage of Game of Thrones fame came out on the Other side and basically was like, said Disney can't decide what it wants to do with this movie. He's like, you cast a Latina Snow White so you seem like you want to be woke there, but then you give us these terrible CGI dwarves. And he's like, why are the dwarf. He basically was like, they shouldn't be dwarves. So that was a controversy. Then CGI and they shouldn't be dwarves. He said they should be normal sized people, that it was offensive that they were dwarves. So he was. He. So he and Martin Klebber were both from the. That community, were on opposite sides of this issue publicly. And then Rachel Zegler decided to go all in on free Palestine. Small detail. The evil queen in Snow White is played by Gal Gadot, who is from Israel and served in the Israeli military. So Disney canceled the premiere and basically sent them all to like a castle in Spain with no press other than Disney employees. And this movie is opening in the theater this weekend. Oh, the other thing was. What's that famous song? My Prince Will Come, the one from Snow White? Zegler refused to sing it, so they took it out. [01:13:22] Speaker A: Wow. [01:13:23] Speaker B: So this movie's got. [01:13:26] Speaker A: This movie. [01:13:28] Speaker B: This movie makes the Ray movie look like it's got no stink on it. I have no idea what to expect. I really don't. [01:13:38] Speaker A: Is there a price tag on what this movie cost? [01:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean they all. They are like another 200 million dollar budget movie. So who knows. But. [01:13:52] Speaker A: It'S crazy to talk about all these movies and $100 million, 2, 3, 400 million. [01:13:58] Speaker B: I saw another big ticket one that was. I saw Electric State. [01:14:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. We'll close this off on a bad note. [01:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, you want to. Yeah, you want to feel worried about Avengers 5 and 6? So we got Joan crazy. [01:14:13] Speaker A: When you told me who wrote this, I was like, what? [01:14:19] Speaker B: So Joe and Anthony Russo, we talked about their struggles when they're not in the MCU. But this movie was also written by Marcus and McFeely, our winter soldier, Civil War, Infinity War Endgame writers. They wrote Electric State. This movie is cost three. It's the most expensive movie Netflix ever made. It's over 320 million dollar budget. It has caught. It has caused Netflix to rein in their film division and change how they hand budgets to filmmakers. Its reviews, I believe at last check, it was 17 in Rotten Tomatoes, which is the same as Craven, comparable to Madame Web. Now let me say I watched the movie. I don't think it's that bad compared to those movies. To be fair. I don't think it's that bad, but it is definitely not good. It has some very mailed in performances by some very talented people. So, Millie, Bobby Brown, Chris Pratt, Stanley Tucci voice. Oh, Kihai Kwan voice acting work by Giancarlo Esposito, Anthony Mackie like, this movie is like, these people are not interested in being there, and you can kind of hear it and see it, and it just is. A mess is what I would describe. It's not horrible, but it's like a mess. And there's no point in this movie where you're like, I'm watching a $300 million movie. It feels much more like. Like a movie I expect to see on the Sci Fi Channel that's like riffing on another movie. You know how they like to do that. Oh, and they've got Alan Silvester doing the music, and the music really sounds like a ripoff of Avengers when he did the Avengers music. But it literally looks like he just lifted the tracks straight out. And I'm just like. There's a. There's a final battle scene where I'm just looking at. I'm like, did you guys just take the blocking from the Wakanda scene at the end of Infinity War and try to rework it with, like, a bunch of robots and a bunch of your. These. These. It just. It's not. It's not well done. It's not well done. Like, is it the worst two hours you've ever spent? No, but it's completely forgettable. [01:16:24] Speaker A: Do you blame it on poor direction? A lot of it on poor direction? [01:16:27] Speaker B: I do, Yeah. I do. I mean, I definitely. I. I definitely think it's the. It's poor writing. So. Marcus McFeel. There's a lot of lines in here where that are very predictable. They're delivered kind of wooden, and it's sort of like, I'm not getting anything out of this. Tucci, in particular, who, you know, has a great voice, really dynamic guy. He literally looks like. He's just like, are we done? Am I good? He's like, did my check clear? Like, it just. He sounds so bored in. In his lines. And then, yeah, the direction. It's just like you're watching these, like, action set pieces with these big CGI, the CGI, like Mr. Peanut. And you're like, this isn't cool. Like, we're a long way from the elevator fight scene. Long way from the highway chase in Winter Soldier. So I don't know. $320 million. I'm like, I don't Really, I know where the money went because you have all these CGI creations, but, like, I don't really know where the money went from. Sort of a totality of the production perspective. [01:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah, man. All this is scary territory because if you're Kevin Feige and you seen this, you're listening to this, you're reading this, everybody seems to be in consensus that. That this wasn't a three. This movie was bad. A bad. Perhaps not as bad as people are making out to seem, but still bad nonetheless. And it was written by the people that gave you their best and was really fruitful for the company. Right. Obviously, that doesn't give you. It's hard to sleep at night if you're not taking some Benadryl, something to help people to sleep. You know what I'm saying? [01:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:21] Speaker A: Because it's like, if you hear this, like, yo, these are the guys that gave us all of these fantastic things, and now they're doing all this other stuff, and it hasn't worked out. They've been spending crazy amounts of money and it hasn't worked out. And you get the gang back together for this Electric State movie and scary situation, scary territory, I'll be. It doesn't mean I'd be worried. [01:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. It doesn't breed confidence, especially when, you know. So in the case of Electric State, they were adapting a novel, but, you know, in the case of Avengers, like, it's a mess. Like, you. You're. You know. Now they were responsible for creating a lot of the momentum in Phase two. Right. That led to Phase three being epic. In this case, they're being asked to fix something that is basically broken. That is a different challenge. Right. And so what they're being asked to do is difficult. I give them that. But, yeah, it. There is this feel of, like, maybe that was lightning in a bottle. Like, that was just, like a moment in time where, like, they had a. Everyone had a hot hand and Marvel could do no wrong. And, like, those days have come and gone. And I was just looking at the. I was just actually looking while we were talking, like, you know, the. The Joss Whedon Justice League. Right. So that on rotten tomatoes was 39% just for a reference. Right. You imagine if, like. And. And the lowest. The lowest reviewed Avengers movie, I believe, was actually Infinity War, which to me is insane. But really, I think so. I might. I believe that that's actually lower than Ultron technically, but I'm not positive because End Game was the highest rated. The first one is in the 90s, as well, maybe Ultron was lower, but I know Infinity War was way lower than it should have been. It was like 84. 85. [01:20:11] Speaker A: 85. [01:20:14] Speaker B: Let's see what Ultron was. Maybe Ultron was lower. No, Ultron was 76. Okay, I take it back. [01:20:18] Speaker A: Okay. [01:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah, but still. Okay, so you imagine if like Avengers come. So the lowest they have is 76. Avengers movie. Imagine if major movies like 38. It's like 39 is like justice League with the way their movies are being treated now. [01:20:34] Speaker A: It is not only the end. Now let me just. Isn't it would not only be pretty much the end of Kevin Feige's career, but this the beginning of the much anticipated time of less and less superhero films. [01:21:00] Speaker B: Yep, I agree. [01:21:01] Speaker A: Much, much less. That perhaps may translate over to DCU if that doesn't work out. Well. [01:21:11] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think like I said, Marvel box office. You're starting to see box office move back to where it was in like 2011, 2010. Which kind of means if you can really only count on, you know, 350 to 450 for a movie, then, you know, you got to budget accordingly. Right. So then budgets need to roll back down to like 100, 125 million. They need to be like about 50 to 60% of where they've been for superhero movies. And I'll say you can't make a good movie. We know the Garrett. We know that Gareth Edwards makes great movies with like a 50 million dollar budget. But like, that's a. That's a skill unto itself. You know, it's being able to do that. So, yeah, we'll have to see how the superhero genre looks if that's what you have to work with. [01:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah, man. This is not a good place. [01:22:01] Speaker B: No, we're. No, no, this thing is. This thing is teetering and like, theaters are nervous because this has been a cash cow for 15 years. Even the bat right there was a period where even the bad ones, it's like, all right, it's a bad movie. But I know I'm getting a couple hundred million bucks out. If you're the theater, I'm getting a couple hundred million bucks out of these. Now it's like people don't really want. [01:22:22] Speaker A: To show up again. I'm not gonna say he man is gonna make Super Mario Brother money, but the potential is there based on all this other stuff that isn't working. He man is different. Very different from what we've been seeing. I'm telling you, man, the sleeper hit will be he manual. This is going to be very interesting to see. That's next year, correct? [01:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And so is Voltron. I think Voltron's a sleeper hit, too, because, you know, the one thing they don't do, the big, they don't do the gigantic numbers. But the monsterverse makes money. All the Godzilla, King Kong, Godzilla, Kong move. And Nick, you and I have talked about it, right? Like, they've gotten silly with those. But those are budgeted appropriately and they are making more money every time they put one out to me. Voltron done well is like the super size, super version of that, right? It's like this spectacle of gigantic robeasts and this incredible looking robot with swords and space. Like, there's a market for that. Like, there definitely is a market for that. And so I feel like all of a sudden you look. That's why I say you look at Amazon, you're like, wait a minute. So they got he man and they got Voltron and they got Bond. And they're circling. They're circling DC just waiting. I'm like. I'm like. [01:23:49] Speaker A: They smelled the blood in the water already, boy. They just waiting. [01:23:53] Speaker B: And like, they're not perfect, right? Like, Rings of Power has been kind of an uneven, uneven deal. But, like, you can see them learning. You can see them learning, right? You can see, like, invincible. The boys, like, as they go, you're like, whoever's in those rooms is. They're not stupid. Like, they're making mistakes and then they learn from them and they do something different. And then they're like, all right, we need, you know, we need key IP here, but we need a variety. We can't just be all experimental. Yeah, yeah. [01:24:18] Speaker A: And they have the money to experiment with it, but not necessarily just blow it, but to learn and get better. [01:24:25] Speaker B: So, yeah, like, look at Reacher, right? Like, that show. Like, that show could go for 15 seasons if he wants to do it. It's 30 books. Like, and that shows not losing anything in. In season three. Bigger audience. It. I actually like three better than two. I think one season, one still my favorite, but I'm enjoying three better than two. It's Amazon, another Amazon show. [01:24:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let us know in the comment section below what you guys think of. Everything that we've discussed has been a lot to go over, but a lot of interesting things happening, a lot of rumors, a lot of definitive moves. When it comes to Bond, when it comes to Punisher, it seems that people know what it is. Those people don't seem to know what it is that they want. And and right now, there's a lot of uncertainty as well with the super Regiano, too, because of this. This. This Avengers thing, man, dare I say it doesn't make $2 billion or at least 1.5 almost. My numbers is coming down lower and lower. The closer we get to this, the more announcements, the more news that we get from this. The number keeps coming down because we just don't believe it anymore. We don't believe it anymore. We'll see. We'll see. Let's see. But yeah, let us know in the comment section below what you guys think, and we'll see you next time on the Nerd J Report.